Steering linkage adjustment

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Biddie_fiddler

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Hi All,

I've replaced the steering linkages (I think thats what their called) with the aluminium linkages from the rear - I broke the plastic ones after a fail of a jump.

I've ordered some aluminium carriers for the rear so I don't have to worry about the adjustments any more. They were pretty cheap from aliexpress.

20181111_135713.jpg

What is the easiest way of adjusting these linkages?
It seems simple but I just wanted to make sure I do it right the first time so I don't have to constantly adjust them.

Thanks in advance! :)
 

Northernnightmare

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I use the online manual for the savage, they state the length they should be for the steering to run true

its available on HPI web page.
 
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Biddie_fiddler

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I've finally found it on the flux hp manual!!

Dunno if I'm blind but I couldn't find it in the savage xl manual I have printed, not even in their new savage xl flux manual!

For reference if anyone else finds this:

Front
Turnbuckle length front.JPG

Rear
Turnbuckle length rear.JPG

Thanks @Northernnightmare!!!
 

Atarioldskool

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Aluminium steering links are they any good ?
Like to have silver links / carriers but got told I’m better to use plastic ones as by having aluminium it could cause more damage to other parts where as plastic has a bit of give way

What’s everyone’s opinion ?
 
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Biddie_fiddler

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Yet to try it. The last steering turnbuckles (turns out that's what they're actually called) I had were plastic, they lasted a very long time. These are the only ones I have as a spare so that's why I'm giving them a go. I'm gonna loosen the servo saver spring to compensate for no give in the turnbuckles.
I'll see how it goes and let you know :)
 

OnThatPipe

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Aluminium steering links are they any good ?
Like to have silver links / carriers but got told I’m better to use plastic ones as by having aluminium it could cause more damage to other parts where as plastic has a bit of give way

What’s everyone’s opinion ?
Very few nylon parts on the Savage need to be replaced with aluminum. Most folks get them for looks, but realize they add significant weight (which most people don't want). The nylon rod ends are fine. I personally run titanium turnbuckles with Mugen rod ends. It decreases weight and eliminates much of the slop

In my experience, the only aluminum really needed are the shock towers. This is because the bulk head is very frail on a TVP design. For the first few gallons after I jumped it a lot I noticed I kept melting spur gears. Turns out the joint posts were getting bent, tweaking the TVPs. This caused the engine plate to slightly bend, causing the clutch bell to hit the brake discs, causing the bell to overheat and thus melting the spur gears. Even though I was replacing the stock towers every other gallon or so, I realized it was the give in the towers that caused the post to bend. I put on aluminum towers and ~15 gallons later no issues at all. I wish I could have put carbon fiber towers but they are not offered. :-(

I also put Alza toe blocks so I could capture the hinge pins, alum horn, and alum roll bar are really the only aluminum needed. I do have the IRC TVPs, engine plate, and the Alza bulk head kit, alum carriers, etc. I just realized after time what was causing what to fail so then focused on fixing those areas so I could keep the truck as light as possible..

Goal should be to reduce the weight and increase durability.
 
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OnThatPipe

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Oh, and regarding the broken steering link, exactly how did it break? Did the pivot ball just come out? If so simply capture them with a washer (you'll want to do that with the alum as well. It's the pivot balls themselves that wear so even with the alum rod ends and HA pivot balls you'll need to capture them.

As for the adjustments those are actually called your 'toe links'. People adjust the front toe settings based on how they are driving it. Usually 1-2 degrees in or out at the front, and the rear is always negative. Regardless just ensure both are equal length.

Regarding the "no give in the turn buckles" most people try to eliminate the give (slop) as there is no advantage to it. The pivot balls should pivot but not have any play (vertical or horizontal).

Regardless, the servo saver plays no role in "slop" by tightening it or loosening it. The pivot ball on the saver arm can have slop as can the steering bushings (so I use bearings instead) but the servo saver is just that. It's prevents the servo from overextending in the event you land when your servo is turned. The spring tension is factored by the servo strength. But is only comes in to play on an impact and again only affects the servo. I hope that makes sense. In fact, I would suggest getting the HD saver spring as the stock one will loosen on its own very quickly...and "not save" your servo (as I learned). :-(
 
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Biddie_fiddler

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Oh, and regarding the broken steering link, exactly how did it break? Did the pivot ball just come out?
Nope, The nylon rod end snapped - it literally happened twice in one day!

Update on this thread while I'm here:

Waiting on a new servo (arriving today) so I can finish adjusting the steering linkage and turnbuckles.

The rear carriers still haven't arrived so my beloved savage is sitting on the bench patiently waiting to be reassembled :ROFLMAO:
 

Sparky

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The alloy rear carriers are one of the must have upgrades to any savage,
Have them on every savage I have,
Nitro and flux models,
As for the alloy steering setup,
Ive replaced my steering drag link with the alloy upgrade and actually get a little extra steering throw over the stock plastic part.
 

OnThatPipe

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I guess I have been lucky. Never had an issue with the carriers on my Savage. I only have one (Savage), but it's got 20+ gallons through it. I've run it pretty hard (jumped it a lot) so fortunately it's not been a must have for me (I'd hate to add all the weight). Of course I have replaced the stock during the time due to normal wear and tear but never had one go bad on me. I have bent pins a few times, but it never became inoperable. I have a lot of spare ones I replace as needed but it luckily it's not been problematic.

.What exactly has happened to your rear carriers in the past? Is it the carrier itself, or the spindle that you have had problems with?

Regarding the alloy drag link I was unaware they even made one. Good to to know. How does it affect steering throw, by the way?
Usually one has to replace/mod their hub carriers for that (as I'd think is the case with the Savage).
I understand where the drag link would effect the Ackerman (longer one tames cornering, shorter makes it more aggressive). You know, just as moving the plate on the bell crank to change the angle of the steering links on RC's that use a plate design. But of course that is completely different than throw I'm missing how it actually affects the throw.
 
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Biddie_fiddler

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All parts arrived and the savage is ready to go!!

I'm a bit concerned with the rear hub carriers - the rear right dogbone has basically no movement in it at all when I use the middle hole (as seen in the attached image). It drives fine but I think this is a big failure point if left like this.

Using the top mount I have way too much +ve camber but then I have some slack in the dogbones...

The turnbuckles are adjusted and it turns perfect! especially with the new savox servo - by far the fastest servo I've seen!
 

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Sparky

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With the Integy rear carriers you either have to run adjustable upper arms or drill a new hole in the arm to suit,
Just so there is a little end float in your dogbones,
With the Integy HD rear carriers they mount up without any modification.
 

Sparky

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Have you removed the O rings hpi put in each end of the drive cups?
Removing them may get you the end float required.
 
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Biddie_fiddler

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Have you removed the O rings hpi put in each end of the drive cups?
Removing them may get you the end float required.
I actually cut fuel pipe and use those :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
But they're out and its quite tight. I'll probably end up getting adjustable upper arms next anyways - figured they'd help sort it out
 
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Hi All,

I've replaced the steering linkages (I think thats what their called) with the aluminium linkages from the rear - I broke the plastic ones after a fail of a jump.

I've ordered some aluminium carriers for the rear so I don't have to worry about the adjustments any more. They were pretty cheap from aliexpress.

View attachment 5886

What is the easiest way of adjusting these linkages?
It seems simple but I just wanted to make sure I do it right the first time so I don't have to constantly adjust them.

Thanks in advance! :)
Those turnbuckles are poop. I bought 4 off Aliexpress but soon binnen thwm. For one thing they kept unscrewing leaving definite adjustment out of the question. Secondly they de-threaded very fast. I would simply buy the titanium turnbuckles with plastic rod ends on eBay. They go for 20 bucks and work perfect!!!
 
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Biddie_fiddler

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Those turnbuckles are poop. I bought 4 off Aliexpress but soon binnen thwm. For one thing they kept unscrewing leaving definite adjustment out of the question. Secondly they de-threaded very fast. I would simply buy the titanium turnbuckles with plastic rod ends on eBay. They go for 20 bucks and work perfect!!!
Had no troubles with them so far - we'll see how they go. When they do eventually break I'll probably just replace them with stockies again anyway
 

OnThatPipe

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Have you removed the O rings hpi put in each end of the drive cups?
Removing them may get you the end float required.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by 'end-float' here, but I believe the o-rings help minimize slop (preventing the cups from wearing unevenly, causing the drives-shafts/dog-bones to run wobbly.

I wasn't getting but a 1-3 gallons on drive cups/out drives as they would develop extreme slop due to the wear. I even got the "HD" ones but they held up worse than stock. (n)

Take a look at just some of cups below that I've gone through,. Of note it are the HD ones, see how worn they became (in less time than stock). Gotta love HPI...heavier and less durable.

How I fixed it? Easy. I started putting that plumber tape around the ends of the shafts/dog bones. This allowed me to position them perfectly and took away all the play--yet still allow it to move smoothly and effortlessly. I was running cv joints in the front (such as below) until I needed them for another vehicle. But the pipe thread tape works well.

Had no troubles with them so far - we'll see how they go. When they do eventually break I'll probably just replace them with stockies again anyway
It will depend on how hard you run it. They will most likely bend. Most vehicles use nylon rod ends as you want them to flex. However, some things about rod ends you might want to know:
  • It's the rod ends that will develop slop, not the outside pivot balls.
  • They are a maintenance item in that they most likely need to be replaced when they have play in any direction (usually 3-5 gallons). You will also notice much of your slop will go away as well.
  • I use mist of graphite dry lube on my pivot balls (as it won't attract dirt) to keep them smooth.
  • Capture the screw heads with a washer to protect them from popping out.
  • Use that pipe thread tape to put around the threads of any screws going in to pivot balls...it will eliminate the slop.
 

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olds97_lss

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I must have the HD integy rear carriers on both my savage flux and X as I didn't have any binding on the rear cups using the super HD bones/cups on both. I don't think I have any o-rings in the rear though. Didn't seem to need them.

I had issues with the front SHD bones popping out frequently which really dinged up my cups from smashing into the end of the bone. Sounded awful too. My issue was due to the "upgrade" suspension conversion which allowed more steering throw and altered the geometry a bit. It came on my flux when I got it used. I removed that conversion and got the integy rear carriers to use with stock upper arms again and stock carriers/c-hubs on the front. Now with o-rings in the front inside cups, it's been fine ever since.

I used to wear out center cups all the time on my old savage 21. The transmission was a bit higher so the angle was greater where the bone went in the cup. I ran cvd's on it just so I would only wear out the inside cups on the trans and replace them frequently. I haven't had near the wear on my X or even my flux as I used to have on the old 21. I expected the ones in the flux to wear a lot due to the torque of brushless, but it's holding up ok.
 

Grumpy1822

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I have had issues with front bones popping out as well both reg and shd when the orings wear out. I put some small plastic bushings in the cups to take up the slop. I run them in the front of all 3 of my savages now. No more popping bones.
 

Grumpy1822

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I used to have similar tie rods gpm a while back. I had issues with them coming loose. That securement nut will need some loctite. I may still have them in my tool box. I have to check. Running lunsfords now. Cant get them anymore.
 

olds97_lss

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I have had issues with front bones popping out as well both reg and shd when the orings wear out. I put some small plastic bushings in the cups to take up the slop. I run them in the front of all 3 of my savages now. No more popping bones.
I bought some larger 5mm x 11mm x 3mm o-rings from china. They are soft enough to compress when the arm goes up, but thicker than the HPI ones to keep them well within the cup on the wheel throughout all the articulation.
 
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