Resurrecting a Savage 25 - Stored Away for 13 Years! - Rebuild Options

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Wow that's a thread and a half :D!!



On which note - I just ordered a Fioroni clutch and carbon pad assembly from across the pond :greedy:

So much for reigning it in!!!

Today I start the garage clear out and take it back from the spiders... I need my workshop back so I can get all this kit past the misses!

That's the spirit! Now the bug has bitten...
???
 
Where and what price is the Fioroni clutch? You will probably have to pay vat and fee when landed in uk.
 
Where and what price is the Fioroni clutch? You will probably have to pay vat and fee when landed in uk.

Got mine from Amain. It's really not expensive at all compared with 4 shoe alloy offerings from everyone else.

Yes - VAT and import will apply, but the clutch lasts forever.

The one you see in the photos is well over 10 years old. And mint still.

My XT8 17 uses the Turbo Slider too - with a 35mm Fioroni and Novarossi .28 Legend.

Due to the massive surface area of the clutch shoes - probably 50% more than a 4 shoe even - some people find it difficult to get the shoes adjusted right for smaller engines. But for .25 + sizes we typically find in our Savages, it's just not an issue - more bite than you'll ever need and virtually zero maintenance. The clutch bearings will last forever if they are sealed and lubricated periodically.
 
You can also get them from Fioroni directly. ?
 
Total price was £42 with delivery . Fioroni direct was ridiculous postage - either 20 or 30 euros iirc to the UK - they charge 10 euros in the same country! $6 from the US. Either way the US route was the cheapest I could find.

Just did a calculation on an import tool and 0 duty would be paid, just VAT - which they calculate off the dollar price to be a total of £48 all in.

But more importantly - its so small I can tell the misses it cost pennies!!!
 
Crikey! Postage seems a bit steep for a small packet from Italy. ? Hadn't realised. Amain is where I've got mine each time, including my Protek RC servos etc.

£48 works out about the price of a Reds racing clutch! ? But with more clutch surface area, easier fit springs (up to 3 proper coil springs can be used) and virtually no maintenance other than cleaning. They last forever and are so much kinder to clutch bells.

I also prefer the more progressive feel you get from the clutch. ??
 
That's what drew me to it, set and forget for the most part.

On to my next question. LiPo is totally new to me. Didn't exist in my youth when I was racing and I need some education. I understand the cells and how they work etc. 3.7v per cell so a 2s is 2 cells and I understand the technicals.

If I wanted to use LiPo for the receiver and servos, what's the sketch? I've ordered 2 x JX high power servos but do any receivers natively work at 7.4v or do they all need something to limit at 6v?

Am I looking for specific radio gear for 7.4v?

Cheers
 
That's what drew me to it, set and forget for the most part.

On to my next question. LiPo is totally new to me. Didn't exist in my youth when I was racing and I need some education. I understand the cells and how they work etc. 3.7v per cell so a 2s is 2 cells and I understand the technicals.

If I wanted to use LiPo for the receiver and servos, what's the sketch? I've ordered 2 x JX high power servos but do any receivers natively work at 7.4v or do they all need something to limit at 6v?

Am I looking for specific radio gear for 7.4v?

Cheers

Yes, 2s is 2 cells, but a fully charged LiPo is actually 8.2 or 8.4 volts. Can't remember. Some Rx can operate at a higher voltage, like Spektrum. Just check the specs on the radio gear you want to use. Also, if you do decide to use a LiPo, you'll want to get some sort of inline voltage cut-off so you don3over discharge the cells and cause them to puff and burst in flames. Which could possibly be highly dangerous with a nitro truck. I'd just stick with a good quality, high mah (capacity) NiMH hump pack. I used hump packs for awhile til I couldn't stand spending the money on new packs once a yr cuz I didn't have that great of a charger. So, I just started usin the Energizer Lithium batteries. 2 pks if 4 would last me the yr and the total voltage is 6v.
 
I totally agree with ExtremSavage.

Most modern servos (good ones) are 'high voltage' and fine with 8.4v. The problem is that there are still a lot of receivers that aren't rated for anything over 6V.

In my experience, most good 6V NiMH packs are actually higher voltage when freshly charged also, but this has never harmed my Fasst receivers.

So, choosing a 2s lithium polymer battery as a receiver pack usually means using a regulator for 6V receivers. You'll gain extra capacity and the pack is lighter, but being regulated, it will still be 6 volts.

The downside with LiPo is that they don't like being deep discharged, require LiPo specific chargers and aren't as 'hardy' as NiMH packs. As an alternative, there are also LiFe packs that work out exactly between NiMH and LiPo - they're lower voltage but offer higher capacity and they're less finicky than LiPo cells. They still require specific chargers though.

Until I venture into the world of brushless powered machines and invest in state of the art LiPo chargers, I personally will just continue to stick with good quality NiMH packs for my FASST receivers and Protek/Savox/Hitec servos. Old school! ??
 
unless marked down in value, charged on total ncl postage for vat, usually admin fee of £8 from royal mail.
 
can you link to fioroni sliding clutch on amainhobbies as cant find it in stock
 
I use LiFe 6.6V 1700mah receiver packs in mine.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-1700mah-2s1p-20-40c-lifepo4-receiver-pack.html

So did you get the last Fioroni flywheel in stock at amain?

I think i'll stick with aluminium clutch shoes as they are a few pounds for a set and last a reasonable time, it will be over £50 for the fioroni set up.

Can LiFePo4 batteries puff and catch fire/burst into flames from being over discharged? I've never looked into or researched that type of battery before.
 
I've accidentally left the receiver on and run them flat and they charge and perform ok with no swelling. They are similar to LiPo and never had any issues with them. You obviously need a charger that has a setting for LiFe. Batteries rarely spontaneously burst into flames. All batteries need to be treated with care and not frequently under or over charged. A frequent physical inspection is always best. Lipos have a flammable electrolyte which increases the fire risk. Risk is relative and we all walk around with a lithium battery powered smartphone in our pocket.
 
So did you get the last Fioroni flywheel in stock at amain?

I think i'll stick with aluminium clutch shoes as they are a few pounds for a set and last a reasonable time, it will be over £50 for the fioroni set up.

I think it was yes - I remember seeing last one in stock but was on so many sites I'm not sure if it was amain!

I've been going round in circles with radio gear - already ordered the JX servos from aliexpress but didn't want to spend a fortune on transmitter/receiver but did want the receiver to be LiPo capable. So went for the Flysky FS-GT5, £47 off E-Bay new. Receiver is the FS-BS6 which is rated up to 8.4v and in general for a bit of bashing the reviews are very favourable at this price point. They are so popular its not like I'm losing anything as it will sell on easily enough.

Also means I can LiPo if I want - I will need to purchase chargers for everything anyway having lost my toolbox so its not like it will cost me much extra.... Thanks Dad!!! I am assuming if everything is high power capable then the LiPo just plugs into the harness, no need for regulators or any other extras?

Now I need to think about tyres/wheels. I have got 17mm hexes but cannot honestly believe the cost of a set of boots for these trucks! Only ever ran the stock HPI wheels on the 25.

Using high power engines are belted tires a necessity or a luxury? Any decent mid range? Was looking at the Arrma Back Flip 6s (I think) - come in cheaper than prolines for sure!!
 
I don't think belted are necessary in a nitro Savage, they're relatively new and aimed at latest cars with insane brushless torque.

Proline 3.8 tyres on their offset wheels are long lasting but prices have steadily increased, so I usually watch out for used sets. I also still use HPI Dirt Bonz.

I would look at Arrma Backflip 4S LP, similar to Badlands. The 6S range maybe larger and heavier, maybe not so suited to nitro.

Re-battery receiver - the space inside is restricted, that is why i went with LiFe battery as it nicely fits. LiPo will give you higher voltage so in theory faster servo speed. I never looked for a LiPo pack to fit the space. Good luck. If receiver and servo rated to 8.4v then in theory LiPo ready.

Flysky gt5 is a 6ch tx with fancy display isnt it? Only really need 3ch. Been using a Flysky gt3b for years. They're good enough for bashing, better than the basic tx supplied with kits.
 
I measured the space in the radio box and its fine for a LiPo - all the way up to a 2700mah 2S will fit so that's looking like the best option now.

I'll look at the wheels - thanks for the heads up on the 4S over the 6S.

The GT5 is just generally improved but is gyro capable so something new to play with ;)
 
I've used a separate gyro in 2wd cars and it helps a bit when pinning the throttle in a straight line but don't think it's necessary in a 4wd.
 
And you'll still need to get a auto cut-out switch if you go the LiPo route. You don't want the voltage to drop past 3.4 or the cells with start to be compromised . I've seen it happen before. A guy I used to bash with set his LVC wrong and over discharged the batteries when he was runnin is buggy, a Mugen MBX6 I believe. He was lucky enough to get the batteries out of it before they burst.
 
A small LiPo alarm can be used to alert at desired cut off voltage. eg. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-NEW-RC...457467?hash=item3b2b0ec03b:g:m~AAAOSwVL1WBUBt
 
I've seen this but it cuts at 6v, https://www.skyrc.com/Accessory/SKYRC_Power_Switch

I understand LiPo will hold voltage then drop off quite quickly, is 6v about right to be cutting of a 7.2v 2S pack? I've found 2 different ones, both cut at 6v so it must be tried and tested.

The only problem with the alarm is the 100 decibel output, strikes me as being flight oriented. Although you'd be unlikely to let the battery dip once that has alarmed once!!!

Plus I can mod a switch like this into the radio box to sit flush which should look pretty good at the same time as saving damage to the battery.
 
Ok more reading and I've answered my own question. 3v per cell, so a 2S should never drop below 6v.

edit: That doesn't make sense to me - If the max voltage you want to drop to is in the 3.4-3.7 range then a 2S shouldn't drop below 6.8-7.4 should it?!? :confused:

I'm overthinking this after 3 hours sleep I think...!
 
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Chassis plates have arrived, and they are fine, straight... A little marked up nothing too bad. More importantly the XL bulkheads arrived - and the diffs/cups etc. are both in good condition, big relief! Oh and over on MSUK forums, a very kind member sent me a roto start shaft for a fiver inc. postage, top man.



Getting closer to starting this build at last.
 
Any battery will drop to 0v when left under load. The issue with lithium battery chemistry is the voltage curve and the sudden drop at their capacity end. The chemistry at low voltage may result in some issues. I've ran some LiPo packs regularly to 3v per cell and their life is shortened and puffing may occur. You get to 3v per cell by setting the lvc to the lowest setting and run the car until it wont go. Typically I now set low voltage cut off for LiPo to be at least 3.5v per cell. The little LiPo alarm is very loud and you can adjust the lvc. I don't use an alarm with LiFe battery pack, as regularly recharge, but have occasionally left them on and ran down to 0v, with no physical issues and they recharge to full capacity. I had no issues leaving them fully changed in car for many months without use. With lipos it is generally recommended to store them at storage charge (3.8v per cell). Hence why I chose LiFe battery a few years ago for the receiver pack. Maybe someone with experience using a LiPo receiver battery would have a different experience/view. There's always more than one way.
 
Yeah I understand where you are coming from - I am trying this switch out first:



With the visual meter and cut off - I would have to be pretty careless to run it down until it cuts out anyway. See what the run times are like on a 2500mah pack - I am unlikely to be out 'all day' anyway, will mainly be short sessions unless the kids get hooked too and then I'll be packing spares etc.

So I just placed a large order for new parts, shims, o-rings, greases, oils, tools, brakes, cup joints, air filters - anything and everything I could possibly need (except the new engine and wheels).

Bit like Christmas, wrong for someone my age!!!
 

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