Resurrecting a Savage 25 - Stored Away for 13 Years! - Rebuild Options

MooGoCow

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47
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Midlands
Hi, all - great to see a resource like this for these great trucks still active, great community!

So around 13/14 years ago I bashed the truck and put it away, life took over, had kids, moved house and it has been stored away ever since. Kids are of an age where they are showing an interest in RC so I am using this as an excuse to rekindle my own interest and get the Savage running again. Would be really good to get them interested enough make a hobby of it.

The truck is in pretty good shape considering it was not put away clean but will need a full strip down and rebuild. Have a rusty driveshaft, clutch bell, fuel sludge in the tank and who knows what else awaits. Installed a bunch of Alu replacement parts back in the day - shock towers, hubs, upper suspension arms, fuel tank guard and did the 4 gear diff upgrade and cf brake pad - not sure if that was stock or not... Few pics:


I want to switch to either .28 or .32 with a tuned pipe but am concerned at costs of going .32 - not so much the cost of the engine but the costs of all the hop up parts needed to withstand the power, yet alone source them.

Already on the list regardless of engine option are:

Radio box, radio & Savox waterproof servo's, 6V Receiver pack.
Throttle linkage replacement (found THIS from Fastrax which will help with that)
Full bearing replace - should I go ceramic like: THESE from Acer or are non ceramic good enough?
Hardened Clutch Bell and Spur - Needed? See conflicting advice around.

On the maybe list: Fiorino Sliding Clutch, Dual Brake, Steering assembly (bearing upgrade already covered) - should I upgrade the whole assembly to alu?

Looking through the mountain of info on these very forums I have made a list of additional needs if I went with a .32:

BP diffs, alloy diff housing (not sure if I have these already until I strip it), alloy cups all round, hardened dog bones, 3 speed?!? Extended TVP?!? Shocks?!? - Is this all overkill, have I missed anything?

If I go with a .28 - is any/all or none of the above necessary or recommended?

Engines on the shortlist I can get stock of:
LRP ZR.32 Spec 4 Pull Start
LRP ZR.28 Spec 4 Pull Start
Hong Nor Force .28 Pull Start - can this hang with the LRP? It is considerably cheaper.
Pipe - JP-3 looking the most popular recommendation and I can get stock too which is a bonus.

I am leaning towards the .28 as it gets the truck running faster, will cost less and drink less fuel, but will I regret it later!??!?! Million dollar question I guess.

Any advice on this stuff would be great, thanks in advance!


MooGoCow!
 
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MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Talk about a full u turn on the plans...

I rediscovered the joys of extracting the diffs on the Savage 25 - full strip down to get to them. That started me looking for solutions to mod the bulkheads to X/XL for the quick access. I've landed a new 102272 bulkhead (newest option part for the XL and Flux) but also a used bulkhead fully assembled complete with diff off ebay for £17. Not entirely sure if this is off an X or XL but if the diff is in good nick that saves me a small fortune. If it doesn't then I have a usable bulkhead with up rated cups etc.

Then found an XL TVP with shafts and engine mount for £35...

I am now looking at fully upgrading the drive train to take a 5.9... 😁

I love this shizzle, been away far too long!


MooGoCow!
 

xtremsavage

OG HPISF MEMBER!!!!!
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Jacksonville, Fl
Looks like your off to a good start. May be able to possibly find someone selling a roller chassis for cheap too for parts or for spares. To answer a few of you ???s from the 1st post, +1 on the Fioroni sliding clutch. I'm using the dual sliding and it grabs hard, just have to use a deep CB (hardened). I'll post more answers later.
 

lokky

Well-Known Member
Messages
202
I would just service it, see how it goes, get a new engine, sell used engine, upgrade parts as they break or wear out. Biggest outlay is new engine.

Rubber shielded bearing in parts exposed to weather.
Throttle mod just needs alloy servo arm, sliders, diy linkage rod.
Hardened clutch bell only if using steel spur.
BP diffs properly shimmed with diff oil, make sure running both diffs with same ratio, 43/13 or 29/9. Decent plastic shimmed 43/13 diffs will last. Jumps or landing from jumps on throttle may damage them.
Clutch shoes - aluminum is fine, fiorini no experience, high initial outlay.
Engines the more ports the better usually, so Lrp spec 4 has better acceleration than Force 28. I've stuck to 28 size as performance range is fine. I hear more issues about 5.9 engine but never had one.
Pipe - stick with stock plastic to get a feel of performance then try something like jp3/jp4. Some say it makes a big difference. Difficult to prove unless sidebyside comparison.
XL vs stock length is personal choice, I prefer stock for nitro.
Drive shafts - I see no need to increase size to Flux/5.9 for nitro, ie. 9mm ball end to 11mm. also requires replacing diff cups and axles.
At least 20kg steering servo, usually swap stock steering servo to throttle and get new 20kg steering servo.
6v NiMH hump pack or life 6.6v pack.
Easy access gearbox housings make maintenance simpler.
Get some hex head screws to replace stock cross head ones when you lose them and use blue threadlock on metal2metal.
 

guinnessdublin

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Location
England
Totally agree with what looky has said above, I was going to replace diff housing for savage x type but have held off for now as in past even with racing never had any issues did do the 4 spider mod & went for metal diff cups at Time though.
Can’t speak highly enough of the fioroni clutch system very good & lasts the time! 👍🏻
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Thanks Lokky, all sound advice.

I have the XL TVP coming now and it has the extended rear dogbone so I will need to upgrade the cups in the rear. I've also ordered upgraded 17mm axles off the XL which are hardened. I understand these need a larger driveshaft so need to get hold of those.

However - with all the 'little' things adding up - I may just try and find a roller - as Xstremesavage suggested, quickest way to get everything needed and service everything - may well end up with two working Savages after all this! I'm already tired of parts scavenging and at some point, the amount of time you put in doesn't justify the cost.

I'm now favouring the .32 LRP and will probably pull the trigger on it soon to stop all this see-sawing...
 
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lokky

Well-Known Member
Messages
202
It starts with one and can easily multiply. Somehow I have accumulated 12 nitros and 3 brushless Savages and yes space is becoming an issue.

A roller maybe cheaper but it can be a lottery. Depends how urgent and deep your pockets are. There's usually a good supply of ebay parts but some are charging higher prices than 'normal'. jennysrc and rcboyz used to be good from usa, however new part supply is poor, so used maybe best way. The only aluminium parts I use are the rear c-hubs as prefer the plastic flex. Something has to give when it rolls/cartwheels. A plastic arm is cheaper than a cracked diff housing or a bent metal arm. But it's all personal preference. And I think aluminium parts usually add more weight.

SH engines are also decent and basically same as LRP as made in same factory, but you will have to source from far east I think. 3 port is about £70-80, if your bashing for fun then it does the job. They also do 6 and 8 port like the LRP spec 2/3/4. Its just a different sleeve with more ports.
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Patience is rewarded - just picked up 2 x fully assembled bulkheads with BP diffs off Ebay so I now only need the upgraded 11x123mm drive shafts and a couple of cups and the drivetrain is almost complete.

Now i have the diffs I am way more confident in the engine choice

Picked up some big bore shocks (sport) as well.

New problem - my slipper clutch pad is gone. No wonder I couldn't get it to shift gears all those years ago. Guess what though? No stock anywhere. WIll post up in the wanted section but if anybody has any of these https://www.hpiracing.com/en/part/72131 or these https://www.hpiracing.com/en/part/107454, hit me up!

Basically these


Cheers!
 

guinnessdublin

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Location
England
Happy Days, model sport have the 47t S/gear in stock which comes with separate clutch pad if that helps, or they can get in the clutch pads on there own but may have to wait two weeks!
Failing that try wheel spin models, there pretty good also! 👍🏻
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Yes sorry have been in stock for weeks, can get in for you as said!
Or try lokky trick if you can’t wait!
Sorry Guinnessdublin are you saying you know they are ok for use? Ta

I've been using high temperature gasket sheet, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141516086752, cut it to shape and stick it down. Seems to do the job and you get many from a4 sheet for a few pounds.
Great idea - what thickness do you use and what do you stick them with? I am assuming it needs to be removable at some point so superglue not really an option!
 

lokky

Well-Known Member
Messages
202
1mm thick and shoe goo or e6000 (cure overnight) to stick as it peels off with aid of screwdriver tip. Superglue can be used, acetone will soften it and then scraped off.
 

xtremsavage

OG HPISF MEMBER!!!!!
Messages
1,960
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
Patience is rewarded - just picked up 2 x fully assembled bulkheads with BP diffs off Ebay so I now only need the upgraded 11x123mm drive shafts and a couple of cups and the drivetrain is almost complete.

Now i have the diffs I am way more confident in the engine choice

Picked up some big bore shocks (sport) as well.

New problem - my slipper clutch pad is gone. No wonder I couldn't get it to shift gears all those years ago. Guess what though? No stock anywhere. WIll post up in the wanted section but if anybody has any of these https://www.hpiracing.com/en/part/72131 or these https://www.hpiracing.com/en/part/107454, hit me up!

Basically these


Cheers!
Haven't tried the ceramic ones. They weren't even an option when I used to regularly run my truck 10 yrs ago. Looks like guinness and lokky got you covered on the slipper pads. I really don't care what I use, I run it locked down tight with double nuts. Just make sure to be off throttle when landing.
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Haha! I was going blind... (no comments please)!!!

I didn't see this one and assumed you were talking about the Octane one... Sending me mad this trawling the internet...

This works for now, see how long the non steel lasts.

Thanks for your help!
 

guinnessdublin

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Location
England
Only in beginning did I go through s/gears which was just down to my in experience with not meshing gears correct.
Once you learn how too they last it’s just listening out for that slight rocking noise when trying to turn s/gear with c/bell fixed, in fact I’am using same s/gear with new .28 Hong Nor Force engine fitted which I last ran 15+ yrs ago! 👍🏻
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
My only issue at the moment is I've only got a 15T clutch bell - I am assuming I will need a 16/17 for a 47T spur? I still have my original 49T anyway so can use a pad on that until I can locate a bigger clutch bell I guess.
 

guinnessdublin

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Location
England
This may help although I currently have 47/16 c/bell & mine fits just fine, take it this chart is going by HPI stock engine mount & my Nova one has more movement?

1593801762635.jpeg
 

guinnessdublin

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Location
England
Found company on flebay called RC Bearings I think they were called which list all the HPI bearings by original HPI stock code, which were loads cheaper then RC shop.
Rubber where dust/dirt is a concern & full metal where heat can be an issue.
They even had flange type which go in 3 speed g/box!
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Great minds - already placed an order with them - 2 x sets 1 rubber, 1 metal. The cost of individually adding the required rubber bearings was 50p more than another set so can use them as spares and take the rubber off if needed. Cheers!
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Next question - if I was using 10000 weight diff oil in the front diff and 30000 in the rear, does the 10000 refer to WT or CST? Previously just used stock HPI provided oil when the rig was setup and maintained years ago.
 

xtremsavage

OG HPISF MEMBER!!!!!
Messages
1,960
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
I just looked at the ones I have and some say wt and some say cst. I've read a few articles yrs ago explaining all the differences and what not, both diff and shock oil. I think once you get to a certain thickness it changes fron one to other. I think I run 10k rear 30k front in my nitro. Can't quite remember though, been 10 yrs.
 

Horatio

Member
Messages
48
You're doing great dude! Your little lads are going to love your Savage. 👍😎

As a heads-up, my general advice on bearings is stick to rubber sealed bearings on the Savage. There really is no need to go ceramic on bash vehicles.

I generally put the lighter diff oil in the rear diff and thicker in the front to encourage the truck to turn. The diffs that came with my SS were prone to leaking, but generally, so long as they had 4 spiders in them, seem to hold up with my STS .30

Regards steering, I recommend the old Ofna Monster Pirate Servo Saver - you should still be able to find them on ebay - I haven't found a better way of getting steering to the wheels. You can have all the torque in the world, but ultimately, it's all limited by whatever servo saver you're using. The HPI ones weren't all that much cop I'm afraid. The springs were always too weak.
IMG_20200421_150935.jpg

Clutchbells need to match whatever spur you choose to use, just as lokki mentioned - if you use a steel spur, use a hardened clutch bell.

Answer racing do excellent 5x10 bearings that feature rubber seals on one side (for the dirty facing sides) and metal shields for the clean facing sides. They last well.

The Fioroni turbo slider clutch is highly recommended, it will save you a fortune in chewed alloy shoes and overheated bearings etc. Fit and forget. 35mm fioroni flywheel should fit fine.
IMG_20200429_121238.jpg

Ideally, you should upgrade your diff outputs, your axles etc to hardened items if you start using upgraded engines.

Some alloy is desirable, but I'm 100% in agreement that you want flex for Savages that you blast around and bash with. I like alloy shocks, hubs, hub carriers and shock towers.
IMG_20200423_165558.jpg

23mm hubs/wheel hexes are excellent and used to be made by Proline. Now, you can get them from Integy, along with 40 series wheels and tyres. They're really very good, light, strong and comparatively inexpensive. 17mm hubs are more popular but I still prefer 23mm hubs.

Exhausts - try and get a matched tuned pipe for your engine. Plastic exhaust will melt at some point. Not cool.

Big fan of Protek servos, but they're pricey.

If you like the idea of a more flexible set of ratios, get a 3 speed upgrade - one of my favourite upgrades. 👍

Consider your radio gear - highly recommend FASST futaba 2.4ghz for both range and reliability, especially on a basher that will have free roaming of large areas. 👍

Please post pictures of your progress. I really enjoyed restoring my Savage which is 16 years old this year! 😁
 

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MooGoCow

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47
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Midlands
Thanks Horatio, another great post to gain ideas from. My alloy setup is exactly as you say and no plans to hop up any more of the plastic parts.

Couple of eBay bits arrived today, the single bulkhead which did contain an upgraded diff, unfortunately the main 43t bevel gear is worn, not broken just worn about 30%. Also got the 17mm hex adaptors and the big bore shocks.

I was sat with about £450 in a basket on Wheelspin last night and just had to question what I was doing! I think in hindsight I'm going to do the XL upgrade and transmission but see if I can fire up the .25 and see if the old hpi transmitter will play ball, just to make sure everything's solid before going all out. I could end up chucking a load of cash at this and ending up with a junker. My old diffs are the original but they are literally brand new. I'll probably transplant them into the alloy cases and run those with the .25 initially. That will buy the time to source some proper hardened ones if the other eBay's didn't work out.

I'm trusting eBay stuff before I've even got it which today's bulkhead shows is a bit of a lottery.

I then keep looking at new trucks but they don't grab my attention at all, they just aren't a Savage are they 😉... That makes me want to pull the wallet out again!!!
 

Horatio

Member
Messages
48
Thanks Horatio, another great post to gain ideas from. My alloy setup is exactly as you say and no plans to hop up any more of the plastic parts.

Couple of eBay bits arrived today, the single bulkhead which did contain an upgraded diff, unfortunately the main 43t bevel gear is worn, not broken just worn about 30%. Also got the 17mm hex adaptors and the big bore shocks.

I was sat with about £450 in a basket on Wheelspin last night and just had to question what I was doing! I think in hindsight I'm going to do the XL upgrade and transmission but see if I can fire up the .25 and see if the old hpi transmitter will play ball, just to make sure everything's solid before going all out. I could end up chucking a load of cash at this and ending up with a junker. My old diffs are the original but they are literally brand new. I'll probably transplant them into the alloy cases and run those with the .25 initially. That will buy the time to source some proper hardened ones if the other eBay's didn't work out.

I'm trusting eBay stuff before I've even got it which today's bulkhead shows is a bit of a lottery.

I then keep looking at new trucks but they don't grab my attention at all, they just aren't a Savage are they 😉... That makes me want to pull the wallet out again!!!
The Nitro Savage is a retro vehicle, so your finished article will be unique and vintage! Remember this to justify your expenditure! 😂

I'm not entirely sure how much I ploughed into the Savage, but I think my upgrade spree more recently was less than what I spent back in the day.

What I'm left with is a quick, good handling truck with the most desirable attributes of both Truggy and MT. It turns well, handles bumps and takes a ton of punishment. I could race it tomorrow. In my opinion, it's greater than the sum of it's parts. 😊

However. Our old nitro vehicles from yesteryear are never going to perform like these modern brushless machines - totally different flavour. Your Savage won't be a junker though - just go for it! No need for guilt. 👍😎

Here's a link to my Savage rebuild.

Largest Savage Thread Ever
 

MooGoCow

Member
Messages
47
Location
Midlands
Wow that's a thread and a half :D!!

However. Our old nitro vehicles from yesteryear are never going to perform like these modern brushless machines - totally different flavour. Your Savage won't be a junker though - just go for it! No need for guilt. 👍😎
On which note - I just ordered a Fioroni clutch and carbon pad assembly from across the pond :greedy:

So much for reigning it in!!!

Today I start the garage clear out and take it back from the spiders... I need my workshop back so I can get all this kit past the misses!
 
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