Engine Temperature Part 2

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I've Heard Alot Of People Run Odonnells Or however u spell it lol
 
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I'm actually looking at Odonnels webpage right now. It doesnt tell you what the oil percentage is. Does anyone have the link for the fuel thread on here?
 
i know its in canada but check out a website called radio controlled sports and hobbies.com they have specs about fuel there
 
I don't See Odonnels On There Website But Theres Alot Of The Top Brands There!
 
Keithv said:
I'm actually looking at Odonnels webpage right now. It doesnt tell you what the oil percentage is. Does anyone have the link for the fuel thread on here?
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I have some odonnels, but haven't tried it yet. I want to use up the 20% I have. In the new one I am using blue thunder first run fuel, I think I just read someone said they ran hot when they used the blue thunder, Maybe it is the fuel Ive been using. I will know when I try the odonnels, I will try it as soon as I get this one broke in. It makes since, if the first run fuel is high oil content then that means it is lower nitro content which goes along with the hotter temps or lower temps for higher %nitro??

John
 
I Know For A Fact That Blue Thunder Runs Hot!! I Bought 1 Quart Cuz Its All I Could Get And My Temps Shot Up Around 275 Or More Then Finally I Got Some Sidewinder Again And Temps Went Back To Normal Which Was Like 230 And i hadnt changed anything exept the fuel!
 
SAVAGESHAUN said:
I Know For A Fact That Blue Thunder Runs Hot!! I Bought 1 Quart Cuz Its All I Could Get And My Temps Shot Up Around 275 Or More Then Finally I Got Some Sidewinder Again And Temps Went Back To Normal Which Was Like 230 And i hadnt changed anything exept the fuel!
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thanks for the confirmation, I am sure using the oddonels will bring my temp down.

John
 
I never thought of the fuel being an issue. I have about a quart left of my HPI 20%. Ill try getting 25 or 30% and see what happens. Let me know if you try it wister. I'm curious.
 
where is everyone from anyway? Seems like we all have nothing else to do on a Friday night. :)
 
I am in South FL, Deerfield Beach. there's a thread where people post where there from. Yeah nothing going on for me, It's getting late going to hit it.

I'll let you know what happens with the fuel.

Later

John
 
Hi,

Ok, I just went out and did the 3rd tank I used the odonnels, I have an odonnels RTR version at 20% and I have one racing one at 20% then I also bought the 25% I will try when these are gone.

It did run a lot cooler than with the other stuff, My first temp check was only 112 degrees, I never seen the temp that low while it is running it is usually up to 150 or so tby the first time I check it, Oh< I did set the settings all back to factory then richened the hsn a it it was sounding funny running that low I didn't know what it was, in any case once it warmed up I set it on the ground and did the circles at factory settings it never got over 230 degrees. if you remember it got up to 274 degrees pretty fast at factory settings idling with the other fuel. It is a bit cooler today but not a whole bunch, maybe low to mid 80's not sure but cooler than yesterday.

So that's my first exp with this fuel, we will see how it goes, it's already too dark to run it again so I guess I have t o stop for the night.


John
 
Glad To Hear U Had Better Luck!! 230 Is Pretty Much A Perfect Temp!!! Should Have Been Ripping Good!! I'm NOT SURE WHY BUT BLUE THUNDER SEEMS TO RUN HOT, OH WELL LESSON LEARNED I GUESS GLAD ALL OF US COULD HELP A BIT!!
 
Hi,

Well, it is still breaking in so I am still at factory settings, actually a little bit richer than factory on the hsn, but only about 1/2 turn. That seems hot to me but a lot cooler than it got before.

Still this is the rtr version of their fuel and only 20%, I would think it had more oil than the race version they have. well see.

Thanks,

John
 
Ya I Never Use Race Formula's As They Have Alot Less Oil Content So Less Protection and usually higher temps!!! There Made For Power Not For Engine Longevity!!!! The Sidewinder Basher Fuel Has Been Great To Me!! Its A Little More Forgiving If You don't Have It Tuned Just Right!! It Has 16% Oil, I Think More Then That Is Getting To Be To Much Oil!! Its great For Bashing Anyway, If U Were Racing Then That Would Be Different!
 
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Hi,

Well, I started tuning it today. I am using odonnell's RTR 20% (I found out it is 18% oil in the rtr ver) It got to 275 (the limit for this engine in the manual) pretty quickly. Actually it took forever to get to even 170 I guess because it was still at factory settings, once it got to where it got hot enough to where I could give throttle without dieing I drove it around a few times and got the temp uo a bit over 200 then started tuning I moved it about 1/8 turn clockwise on the HSN drove it around a couple times, and repeted, the 3rd time I moved the needle , so not even 1/2 turn on the HSN and drove around a a couple times it was already at 275 (exactly, luckly I caught it before it went over) it is stll blowing white smoke amnd it is still not tuned well enough yet not even close I would say, also I haven't even touched the LSN yet.

Now it is hot 88 degrees is what the IR temp guage says) and very humid today, Iam about 8' above sea level. I don't know if any of that makes any difference but something is going on. Either something is going on or I should just leave the temp gun inside and tune to preformance like I have decided to do so many times in the last few weeks since I got into this but I really don't want blow up an engine to find out??? :stressed:

Any ideas? Both engines I have run hot the other is a HPI F4.6 the manual says 250 max, it runs best at almost 300 and still plenty of smoke when I go full throttle.

I guess I may open a 25% quart and try it, hey does the fuel go bad faster ionce you open them? I keep them in a cool dark place.

Thanks,

John
 
Well I Remember One Member Here Saying His Runs Best At 300 So I'm Not Sure What To Say as my 4.1 was pretty easy to tune so i guess i was lucky!!
 
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I think I might know what the problem is, I had seen this but hadn't read up on it cause I thought it was some kind of fancy raceing trick, I think I may be seeing the "Half tank lean thing, just might have to do the mid tank mod, Oh wait just a min, if it was hald tank lean wopuldn;t that mean I ouldn't get smoke at full throttle?

I am going to read up more on the Half tank lean thing and see what I learn.

John
 
I got mine running the other day pretty well finally. The temp was between 260 and 275 but it was running great. I don't think I'm going to mess with it much more because its driving me crazy. I got a gallon of Odonnells, as soon as I finish the HPI fuel I have left I'm going to try it and see what happens. The LHS only had the 20%, I wanted to try the 30% but we'll have wait and see.
Wister are you in the southern part of Deerfield? My cousins live in Lighthouse Point. Next trip down Ill have to look you up.
 
Yes I am very close to Light house point.

Keith, Did you try tuning your truck after warm up and with the tank only half full, this seems to be the best way to tune to get rid of any possiability of running into the half tank lean which has something to do with, well there are lots of theorys, bottom line it has to do with the engine not getting as much fuel as it does when the tank is full. So if you tune at a half a tank that is a good mid point. there is a link in the "Doobee's newbie" thread about it.

John
 
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Hi,

I just went out to try to tune at 1/2 a tank, I let it warm up, it is at about a half tank I got it up to 200 degrees and started tuning. I did one 1/8th turn on the HSN and drove around a couple times the temp got up to 230, it is already running pretty good it will pull wheelies but it bogs at the low end still (haven't turned the LSN yet), ok I was bringing it in to do another 1/8 turn and passed the spot up so I was going to go around again and it died on me, I went over and brought the truck over and went to start back up and noticed the fuel line was empty, there was still at least a 1/4 tank of fuel in the tank, I had to prime again to start it, when I primed it I noticed it was very low on fuel in the line and filter, ok I got it now I thought.


I figured the tank had to be leaky, I removed and empied it, put it in a bowl of watter and blew in the tube, I could find no leaks?? Not sure what is going on, I am going to buy a tank from new era and try it. Only thing other than that I can think would be that the pipe is not supplying enough pressure.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John
 
I would say take your engine apart and check the main and front bearings .. make sure they are spinning good and all the ball bearings are uniform

a bad bearing will cause high temps
 
Site Jester said:
I would say take your engine apart and check the main and front bearings .. make sure they are spinning good and all the ball bearings are uniform

a bad bearing will cause high temps
Click to expand...

Hi,

Thanks, could that cause the lack of pressure? I really didn't get too hot, but it is at default settings except the HSN was at 1/8th turn past default, it got to 236 right before it died because (i think) of the fuel not getting to the engine. The fuel line was empty, when I primed it I could see it came up out of the tank that's why I thought the tank was leaking.

I have ordered some of the permatex gold sealer to seal the engine, just hasent showed up yet. When It gets here I will check the bearings. I was thinking about ordering a set of the cermaic bearings but I doubt the set comes with bearings for the engine. this is the set I am looking at.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPYS8&P=ML

I read in the forum here in a couple places that the strock bearings are crap.

I really don't want to put a bunch of money in these HPI mill's anyway.

Thanks for the suggestion, I did check the clutch and brakes they seem to be ok, not binding.


John
 
I haven't tried tuning the truck at half a tank. I had it out on Saturday and it was running great, till I lost the screw for the rear drive shaft. The temp was within reason I think. It stayed around 260. I don't think I can get it any lower and still have a decent throttle response. I have about a quart of HPI nitro left and then I'm going to try the Odonnells and see if that makes a difference. All the bearings and the clutch appear to be spinning freely, so the only thing left to try is the fuel.
 
check that fuel filter too, has a simalar problem before and overlooked a fairly new filter. Especially if you are getting low fuel pressure in, or a leak at filter for that matter.
 
Here is an interesting thing I found on HPI's site.

What should the engine temperature be?
The "right" engine temperature will vary widely, depending on the air temperature, fuel used, air flow conditions of the body and several other factors. There is absolutely no way anyone can tell you an ideal engine temperature. It is generally accepted that a proper range of temperatures is between 95 and 120 degrees Celsius (or about 205 and 250 degrees Fahrenheit). Remember that this can and will vary because of driving style, fuel nitro content, altitude, ambient temperature, air pressure and many other factors!

The biggest variable of all in measuring engine temperature is where and how the measurement is taken. Your infrared thermometer may be calibrated completely different than ours, or you may be pointing at a different spot on the head.

The 15FE will run fine at temperatures from 200F up to 250F, as long as you have it set rich enough and use fuel designed for cars. You must have a nice trail of smoke coming from the exhaust when the car is driving at full speed. If the engine is running too hot, it will usually
warn you by having an unstable idle. If you notice the idle fluctuating, richen the needle valve a quarter turn counter-clockwise and check to make sure your body has enough cooling holes to allow good airflow over the heat sink of the engine. Always tune the engine when it is fully warmed up, it leans out as it heats up, so a perfectly tuned cold engine will be too lean once it warms up.

In general, the engine will run fine as long as you see smoke at full speed. The engines are much more likely to be damaged by low quality fuel and/or insufficient filtration than they are by getting too hot. If you use fuel for airplanes it could be damaged at lower temperatures because airplane fuel usually has lower oil content. Always buy fuel made specifically for R/C Cars, not "Airplanes, boats, helicopters and cars".
 
OK and one more. This one is pretty interesting.

How do I read a glow plug?
It is easier to "read" the glow plug to determine if the engine is operating at full efficiency. It is usually possible to take out a new glow plug of an engine and look at it closely to see if the engine is running too rich, near full power, too lean, etc.

Follow these instructions to read a glow plug:
Using a new glow plug, install it in the engine you want to test. Make sure the wire of the plug is shiny and still new. Run the engine for a full tank of fuel at race speeds.
a) Engine running rich: wire and bottom of plug wet, wire shiny
b) Engine running at almost full efficiency: wire and bottom of plug mostly dry, wire slightly gray
c) Engine running at peak efficiency: wire and bottom of plug dry, wire gray
d) Engine too lean: wire and bottom of plug dry, wire out of shape (not coiled)
e) Engine FAR too lean, possible danger to engine!: wire and bottom of plug dry, wire broken or burned

Some glow plugs turn gray sooner than other plugs, watch out for this if you use plugs from different manufacturers. To test plugs (from your toolbox) you are unsure of, switch glow plugs after running a good plug. If there is no difference in performance, save the plug (put it in a plastic bag or box marked "Used Good Plugs").
 
There is more to reading the afr mixture than reading the glow plug. Its hard to get a accurate reading from the plug because of a variation of throttle positions. The best way to nail the afr is to run WOT on a set distance and look at et's getting better in that distance. Glow plug reading helps alot but its not everything.

What is the optimum temp you guys have found for peak hp?
 
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Keithv said:
OK and one more. This one is pretty interesting.

How do I read a glow plug?
It is easier to "read" the glow plug to determine if the engine is operating at full efficiency. It is usually possible to take out a new glow plug of an engine and look at it closely to see if the engine is running too rich, near full power, too lean, etc.

Follow these instructions to read a glow plug:
Using a new glow plug, install it in the engine you want to test. Make sure the wire of the plug is shiny and still new. Run the engine for a full tank of fuel at race speeds.
a) Engine running rich: wire and bottom of plug wet, wire shiny
b) Engine running at almost full efficiency: wire and bottom of plug mostly dry, wire slightly gray
c) Engine running at peak efficiency: wire and bottom of plug dry, wire gray
d) Engine too lean: wire and bottom of plug dry, wire out of shape (not coiled)
e) Engine FAR too lean, possible danger to engine!: wire and bottom of plug dry, wire broken or burned

Some glow plugs turn gray sooner than other plugs, watch out for this if you use plugs from different manufacturers. To test plugs (from your toolbox) you are unsure of, switch glow plugs after running a good plug. If there is no difference in performance, save the plug (put it in a plastic bag or box marked "Used Good Plugs").
Click to expand...

Hi,

Thanks, that's good reading on both of those post's. My plugs are always wet, and I get good smoke.

This K4.6 mill is, well a pain, it does some weird things. For one it takes a long time to get up to temp, when I start at 3/4's a tank (figuring it will be a half or less wen it warms up) its almost empty by the time it hits 230, I refill to half and I will tell you after it hits 230 it usually runs ok, not great, but it goes to 275 very quickly.

Another thing, yesterday it made a strange sound from the motor, It has done ths before but not as bad, I don't know if t maybe is normal or not, It is hard to explain, but I want to think trumpet when I hear it, I guess it changes tone to a higher pitch, dopesn't sound good, this happens when it gets up over 250 (I would say)???

It is proving to be much harder to tune than the F4.6.

Thanks for the info Keith,

John
 
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