whats the difference

[benny]

whats the difference between the sts D30M and the sts D30M modded engine

 

[Defiantspaz]

This is from STSmicroengines.com, as an example:

Extreme Engine Mod by Rick Brake of RBmods.net

Here's just a few details of what you get with this mod:

1) A High Efficient mod with timing and firing pattern's re-established.

2) Crank boring, induction ports sharpened.

3) Sleeve sculptured to maintain velocity produced by crank at lower RPM throughout the power band.

4) Crank is cut for turbo charging the fuel/air mix.

5) Pressure release cuts made for an easier transitioning between power stroke and exhaust stroke.

6) RBmods replaces the factory front engine bearing with a special high precision bearing to handle the added RPM from the mod.

7) ***NEW** RBmods goes above and beyond... Crank Hardening and Rust Proofing.
A reverse osmosis procedure bringing you the best of all the other mods out on the market, Yes sir we have come full circle with this
one folks. Just take a look at the picture attached Notice how some engines loose power and start acting up after some of the
nasty fuels we use? It is the crank rusting up and sending rust particles through your engine, Of coarse you know this would have a adverse affect we all do not want. Dr. Rick has come up with the cure and better yet without raising the prices.

Enjoy and have a great day. Rick RBMods

8) Many other things are done to the engine but RBmods can not give all their secrets ;0)

Now not everyones does the same mods but there are some basic core mods that all the company's do to increase performance. The outside of the box mods are what set everyone apart. Rick's reputation is second to none and from my experience with him personally he goes way out of his way to help out his customers. I bought an RB modded STS D30M and will buy more of Rick's little beasts in the future.

 

[DOOBEEWHA]

Questioin DS:
I've been discussing what appears to be yet another approach reccommended by Rick Brake.
As you know, I've got a founded respect for the man, but there's this report of a break-in instruction by Rick himself that confuses my previous understanding of his reccommended procedures to break-in.

Are you aware of the "no blipping" durring break-in instruction? You may have already broused the thread where this subject is being discussed.
It was a supprise to me to hear of it and If this is the case, What are the specifics on the whole approach?

Don't get that wrong... I don't mean for you to explain it all. I was just wondering if you know of it, and maybe had a few details. Thanks, bro.

 

[Defiantspaz]

The term "blipping" is what causes the biggest confusion. What is a blip? How do you go about producing a "blip"?

Think of the term "blipping" as "pulling the throttle 1/4 of full". The issue is that most people get confused during this stage of the heat cycle break in and consult the "when confused floor it" break in :whipit:

After the static idle heat cycling you need to load the engine to seat the piston to the sleave. Too much load too quickly will destroy the engine and no enough will allow the piston to anodize and never seat with the sleave. The best way to load the engine is to drive the truck. To keep things under control and create some form of unified break in term "blipping" was chosen because a "blip" is a short duration operation. The short duration helps to control the overall load, BUT the force used during the "blip" determines the effective load the engine recieves.

I have come up with a more repeatable break in loading plan. I base everything off of a modified Traxxas/ heat cycle break in procedure. Traxxas got it right with their partial throttle for a desired amount of time method, but forgot about the initial wear the engine will see if it isn't heat cycled to match the piston to the sleave before load is applied.

Here is what I have come up with. The first 6 heat cycles should be short to get the engine used to expanding and contracting. Metals have memory and if you heat unlike metals together for too long they retain their shapes differently. You need to make sure the piston is at bottom dead center, BDC, and heat the engine until you reach 100 deg F and then start the engine and let it idle. While the engine is idling quickly, in under 2 minutes, get the engine up to 200 deg F and shut it down and return the piston to BDC. Allow the engine to cool to ambient temp completely, this is a major part of the cycling process. Repeat this for a total of 6 under 2 minutes to 200 deg F heat cycles. These first heat cycles work on the engines short term expansion and contraction memory.

Now it is time to work on the long term memory expansion and contraction of the engine. You will repeat the same process above but instead of a quick race to 200 deg F you want to spend 3 minutes slowly reaching the temp. This will allow the engines parts to become better seated to one another before they see any load. Repeat this for a total of 6 3 minutes to 200 deg F heat cycles. I know that 12 heat cycles is alot, BUT in the end the quality of the break in will show it's stuff.

After the 12 cycles then I go to the "blipping" part of the break in. First off when you blip the throttle you are just cracking it not going WOT. I think when people think of blipping they automatically think they need to floor the trigger and then let off. This is not the case and it is the problem that Rick was addressing in his break in plan.. I would just get the truck to move forward using no more that 1/4 throttle and then let off, this limits the force load applied to the piston and conecting rod as the break in with the sleave. I continued to do this in half tank intervals returning the piston to BDC and letting the mill cool to ambient after each half tank, I suggest the last half of the tank so you can control the temps better just don't let the mill run out of fuel. I continued this "blipping" for 10 half tank fulls

Next I went to half throttle bursts of 2 seconds. I would ramp the truck up to speed in 2 seconds reaching half throttle at the end of the run. stop the truck and repeat. Do not let the mill get above 210 deg F, if it does richen it up and continue. I did this for 8 tank fulls. At this point you do not have to let the mill cool down to ambient anymore, you can just refill the tank and continue with the break in.

I then moved on to 3/4 throttle bursts of 3 seconds. Same as above just takes more time and you use more throttle. Do not let the mill get above 220 deg F, if it does richen it up and continue. I did this for 8 tank fulls.

Time for some fun now! FULL THROTTLE bursts of 4 seconds. Do not let the mill get above 230 deg F, if it does richen it up and continue. I did this for 8 tank fulls.

Basically you want to expose the mill to varying levels of RPM, heat and load. As it starts to loosen up you will need to keep your self under control. Don't jump the gun and start reving it out until you finish the entire break in.

After all of the above was done I tuned the mill to hit 250 deg and drove the truck on pavement anyway I wanted. I would do full throttle runs, quick accellerations and wheelies if the tune would allow. Just remember to keep the mill fat and happy.

After 2 gallons were run through my RB STS I then tuned it for max power. This break in is what I have done for all of my mills and it make the mill very responsive and powerfull.

I have noticed that using this break in allows me to run slightly more fuel and still produce amazing power. Some people may disagree with running more fuel, but remember that the fuel also lubricates all of the moving parts so running a higher nitro % and more fuel isn't a bad thing. All of my friends have to tune their mills to the ragged edge of death just to keep up. My STS is happily rich and still rips the wheel off the ground with every prod of the throttle trigger.

Everything comes down to one thing, stress load vs repeatability. Think of it like a vertical line and a horizontal line shaped like an "L". Stress load is the vertical line and repeatability is the horizontal. You have a tangent conecting the two that will never grow longer. As you climb the stress load leg the tangent moves closer to the "0" side of the repeatability leg. If you reverse the process you lessen the stress load and increase repeatability.

My point is if you can find a better way to get the most out of your mill with out needing to push it to the limits of it's design you will be better off.

A prime example is my 3.3R JATO. I can do full throttle runs all day long and it never gets over 234 deg F, NEVER, and it is a Traxxas! Traxxas always run hot because they are so high strung. It always has a very strong fuel trail of smoke and most people say it is running way too rich, but it never makes puddes of fuel just tons of smoke. The combustion is very complete and this is a good thing. The seal between the piston an the sleave promote a complete burn and a ton of power. The JATO just rips the tires off it's rims. It is so fast you would swear it has a modded mill in it. My STS is the same way, tons of smoke with out alot of fuel liquid exiting the exhaust. If you do the break in right you will see a big difference in the way your engine produces the normal smoke trail. The better the combustion the more smoke you will see. There is a point where too much is just too much. If the engine is too rich it will barf out good amounts of liquid fuel along with the smoke. Just lean it out a touch so that just a small amount of liquid is coming out but the smoke is still strong.

I know this is one heck of a huge rant but this method has worked very well for me and I hope it works for any of you who have the time to see it through.

 

[DOOBEEWHA]

Well...Ya went ahead and explained it all...
Thanks DS.
That is again, very apprecieated.

I'm not quite sure that the initial question was addressed. I may not have been clear enough about it.
It is my understanding that Rick has stated to "phlibur"(an active forum member) that it is not advised to blip the throttle AT ALL, durring the break-in period.
Because, Quote: "Blipping causes the conrod to stretch" end quote.

I'm with you on the above methods you prescribe. I agree with the logic of it all.My break-in has not arrived to that level of procedure untill now, as I get in to a bigger and better class of mills as we speak.
I just completed a one gallon break-in on a dynamite Mach 28.
47 heat cycles @ or close to 225 degrees with piston always placed at BDC on the cool down.

There were some hot points due to a discovered crack in the fuel tank the didn't help a thing, but it seems that the effort paid off something because the pinch is still remarkably tight.
This mill is doing great in the area of proformance.

I'm sure that the mill could have gotten even more care as your break-in addresses.

I just can't see Rick indorsing a blipless break-in. Can you?

 

[Jeremy]

The term "blipping" is what causes the biggest confusion. What is a blip? How do you go about producing a "blip"?

Think of the term "blipping" as "pulling the throttle 1/4 of full". The issue is that most people get confused during this stage of the heat cycle break in and consult the "when confused floor it" break in :whipit:

After the static idle heat cycling you need to load the engine to seat the piston to the sleave. Too much load too quickly will destroy the engine and no enough will allow the piston to anodize and never seat with the sleave. The best way to load the engine is to drive the truck. To keep things under control and create some form of unified break in term "blipping" was chosen because a "blip" is a short duration operation. The short duration helps to control the overall load, BUT the force used during the "blip" determines the effective load the engine recieves.

I have come up with a more repeatable break in loading plan. I base everything off of a modified Traxxas/ heat cycle break in procedure. Traxxas got it right with their partial throttle for a desired amount of time method, but forgot about the initial wear the engine will see if it isn't heat cycled to match the piston to the sleave before load is applied.

Here is what I have come up with. The first 6 heat cycles should be short to get the engine used to expanding and contracting. Metals have memory and if you heat unlike metals together for too long the retain their shapes differently. You need to make sure the piston is at bottom dead center, BDC, and heat the engine until you reach 100 deg F and then start the engine and let it idle. While the engine is idling quickly, in under 2 minutes, get the engine up to 200 deg F and shut it down and return the piston to BDC. Allow the engine to cool to ambient temp completely, this is a major part of the cycling process. Repeat this for a total of 6 under 2 minutes to 200 deg F heat cycles. These first heat cycles work on the engines short term expansion and contraction memory.

Now it is time to work on the long term memory expansion and contraction of the engine. You will repeat the same process above but instead of a quick race to 200 deg F you want to spend 3 minutes slowly reaching the temp. This will allow the engines parts to become better seated to one another before they see any load. Repeat this for a total of 6 3 minutes to 200 deg F heat cycles. I know that 12 heat cycles is alot, BUT in the end the quality of the break in will show it's stuff.

After the 12 cycles then I go to the "blipping" part of the break in. First off when you blip the throttle you are just cracking it not going WOT. I think when people think of blipping they automatically think they need to floor the trigger and then let off. This is not the case and it is the problem that Rick was addressing in his break in plan.. I would just get the truck to move forward using no more that 1/4 throttle and then let off, this limits the force load applied to the piston and conecting road as the break in with the sleave. I continued to do this in half tank intervals returning the piston to BDC and letting the mill cool to ambient after each half tank, I suggest the last half of the tank so you can control the temps better just don't let the mill run out of fuel. I continued this "blipping" for 10 half tank fulls

Next I went to half throttle bursts of 2 seconds. I would ramp the truck up to speed in 2 seconds reaching half throttle at the end of the run. stop the truck and repeat. Do not let the mill get above 210 deg F, if it does richen it up and continue. I did this for 8 tank fulls. At this point you do not have to let the mill cool down to ambient anymore, you can just refill the tank and continue with the break in.

I then moved on to 3/4 throttle bursts of 3 seconds. Same as above just takes more time and you use more throttle. Do not let the mill get above 220 deg F, if it does richen it up and continue. I did this for 8 tank fulls.

Time for some fun now! FULL THROTTLE bursts of 4 seconds. Do not let the mill get above 230 deg F, if it does richen it up and continue. I did this for 8 tank fulls.

Basically you want to expose the mill to varying levels of RPM, heat and load. As it starts to loosen up you will need to keep your self under control. Don't jump the gun and start reving it out until you finish the entire break in.

After all of the above was done I tuned the mill to hit 250 deg and drove the truck on pavement anyway I wanted. I would do full throttle runs, quick accellerations and wheelies if the tune would allow. Just remember to keep the mill fat and happy.

After 2 gallons were run through my RB STS I then tuned it for max power. This break in is what I have done for all of my mills and it make the mill very responsive and powerfull.

I have noticed that using this break in allows me to run slightly more fuel and still produce amazing power. Some people may disagree with running more fuel, but remember that the fuel also lubricates all of the moving parts so running a higher nitro % and more fuel isn't a bad thing. All of my friends have to tune their mills to the ragged edge of death just to keep up. My STS is happily rich and still rips the wheel off the ground with every prod of the throttle trigger.

Everything comes down to one thing, stress load vs repeatability. Think of it like a vertical line and a horizontal line shaped like an "L". Stress load is the vertical line and repeatability is the horizontal. You have a tangent conecting the two that will never grow longer. As you climb the stress load leg the tangent moves closer to the "0" side of the repeatability leg. If you reverse the process you lessen the stress load and increase repeatability.

My point is if you can find a better way to get the most out of your mill with out needing to push it to the limits of it's design you will be better off.

A prime example is my 3.3R JATO. I can do full throttle runs all day long and it never gets over 234 deg F, NEVER, and it is a Traxxas! Traxxas always run hot because they are so high strung. It always has a very strong fuel trail of smoke and most people say it is running way too rich, but it never makes puddes of fuel just tons of smoke. The combustion is very complete and this is a good thing. The seal between the piston an the sleave promote a complete burn and a ton of power. The JATO just rips the tires off it's rims. It is so fast you would swear it has a modded mill in it. My STS is the same way, tons of smoke with out alot of fuel liquid exiting the exhaust. If you do the break in right you will see a big difference in the way your engine produces the normal smoke trail. The better the combustion the more smoke you will see. There is a point where too much is just too much. If the engine is too rich it will barf out good amounts of liquid fuel along with the smoke. Just lean it out a touch so that just a small amount of liquid is coming out but the smoke is still strong.

I know this is one heck of a huge rant but this method has worked very well for me and I hope it works for any of you who have the time to see it through.

HOLLY COW MAN !! nice post ... You get some rep from me.. good job

 

[Defiantspaz]

I'm not quite sure that the initial question was addressed.

The main point that Rick was trying to fix in his break in plan is that most people don't know how to "blip" the throtle after the initial heat cycles.

As described above, blipping does not mean flooring the trigger and letting off. For Rick to state that idleing the mill for a couple of tanks and then driving it at 1/4 throttle and stepping to more throttle input as the tanks of fuel run through the mill increases suggests that there is alot of confusion as to how to properly do a heat cycle break in.

I have read the break in descibed in the other post and completely disagree with the "put it on it's wheel" from the first tank method. It would cause too much load for a mill that has never turned over. The entire reasoning behind a heat cycle break in it to prepare the mill to be able to easily handle the load caused by moving the RC. If these nitro engines were 4 stroke instead of 2 stroke I would consider the break in discibed in the heat cycle post.

My suggestion is to leave the engine rich and preheat it before starting. Us the heat gun to get to the desired temp while still running alot of fuel for lubrication purposes. Remember that the extra fuel helps to flush any shavings or particles cause from the initial break in of the piston and sleave. With out the proper amount of fuel to flush the mill the debris will just hang out and cause extra wear. The particals will remain in between the piston and the sleave. Once the mill cools they get stuck and act like fine sand paper on the side and top of the piston and sleave once you restart the mill for the next cycle. You don't need to be making the nile river run from your exhaust but a constant flow of fuel in good to see. The next mill you break in look at the fuel puddle after and notice all the metal in it.

I personally believe "if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it". This break in works for me and I plan to continue using it in the future.

Thanks for all the remarks, trust me, if you have the time and patience to follow this to the letter you will be amazed!

 

[DOOBEEWHA]

I trusted you the first time. D.S.
there's no convincing needed here, bro.
I understood everything you said and never had any confusion about how to blip the throttle.
My quote that indicated my Q was not addressed was based on a statement that was made by another. in regards to Rick saying to NEVER BLIP AT ALL UNTIL BREAK-IN IS OVER.

This is what I was trying to get you to hear. my friend.
I don't agree with the way Rick's comment is expressed. Its misleading. thats all. So much so, Its hard to believe he would even say it to begin with.

This is why I questioned philbur about his post containning the comment.

I do understand how the info can be interpeted to the positive. It just required your explanation to help with the whole picture.
I also agree with your methods that you've stated.

I guess my point is that there's another individual here that has the reasonable impression of taking that comment literally.
Other than that, I've been on the same page with you from the beginning.

===========================I hope you didn't think otherwise, my friend.==================================

 

[Defiantspaz]

No problem Doob, I was just clearing up some of the info that I should have went into more detail the first time around.

Everyone is different, for Rick his break in plan may produce perfectly good running race mills in a quicker amount of time. Most Pro racers replace atleast the internals of their mills every year or buy a new mill all together anyway so slightly more wear during break in isn't that big of a deal to them.

For Joe Shmoe who want a mill to last several years more care is needed during break in.

The break in debate can be related to any other aspect of RC'ing. Who makes the best trucks, fastest engines, best fuel? Everyone will have a different answer and a different opinion. That is what makes RC'ing so good, the variaty.

 

[DOOBEEWHA]

Very well put, DS.
I agree with that, also.
Keep up these great posts. Your on a roll with them. And I'll figure out how to drop you some more rep points, bro.

Not that you care about that...lol

But it does reflect some respect that members deserve. Thanks, DS