What makes a motor great?

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deathrage

deathrage

Active Member
Messages
80
Location
Osan South Korea
Hi! I'm still a little new to the hobby and am just trying to understand how everything works.

So the question is "what makes a motor great?" i look at all these motor's that i could eventualy get for my savage XL (that is when the motor dies or i feel like its time to move on to something better) and i start asking why? Why is this motor so great? Or why is this motor so crappy? I have been areound cars for most of my life and understand how they work and there are a few basic fundimetals to what makes a motor great,
1.)displacement
2.)max RPM
3.)fuel delivery/timeing
4.)gearing

Of corse there are many other factors to what makes a motor great, I want to know if the above still holds true to nitro motors or if there are other things that i need to look at as well. Like "why does a larger motor with bigger displacement (k5.9) seem to be beaten completely by a smaller motor (picco .28 p3).

And then the last question to aks is if i were to change out my stock motor (K5.9)) for something better what should i get, keeping in mind that his is going into a pure bashing rig?
 
for bashing engine your open to anything you want. Hard to go wrong.

If you want to spank your buds trucks while out bashing then you need the rite set-up

In nitro the larger engines (.30 +) don't rev as high as the .28 can thus giving the .28's advantage to spin higher and make power faster and longer than a .30+

Timing on an engine is important, the high end mills are going to have better timing profile then say a 99 dollar mill

gearing : is a preference, if you want all wheelie stands or you want more topend. start at 47/17 see how you like it. you can easily swith the cb to 18 for more topend.
 
Crash said:
for bashing engine your open to anything you want. Hard to go wrong.

If you want to spank your buds trucks while out bashing then you need the rite set-up

In nitro the larger engines (.30 +) don't rev as high as the .28 can thus giving the .28's advantage to spin higher and make power faster and longer than a .30+

Timing on an engine is important, the high end mills are going to have better timing profile then say a 99 dollar mill

gearing : is a preference, if you want all wheelie stands or you want more topend. start at 47/17 see how you like it. you can easily swith the cb to 18 for more topend.
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So what advantages go to the big block (+.30).
If we looked sports cars: an american V8 vs a asin made inline 4/6 "usualy" the power off the line would go the american V8, whereas in the longrun the inline4/6 would overtake the larger engin becuase it cant rev as high.

so if i were to apply this concept to nitro engins, assuming they both have the same gear setup, the K5.9 which has a quoted "3.75Hp" vs the Picco .28 p3 which is said to have 2Hp i would think that the K5.9 would win off of the line and the picco would eventualy overtake the larger K5.9 farther down the straitaway. But acording to my reading this is not the case and i don't know why, In my mind to be able to produce 3.75 Hp the timeing and everything would have to be pretty good to get those numbers , not to mention the K5.9 is said to hit 39500RPM and the picco is said to hit 34000RPM.
I understand that the picco is the better of the two but i still don't know why. Logic is screwing me in the head at the moment.
 
deathrage said:
if i were to change out my stock motor (K5.9)) for something better what should i get, keeping in mind that his is going into a pure bashing rig?
Click to expand...

the answer to this question all comes down to your definition of "something better" and your personal preference.

in our 'bash crew' some of us like to run modded piccos, novarossi's, etc., while others are happy with their k.5.9's.

some guys have no problem dropping $400+ on a modded mill to bash while others want to get a decent $100 mill to run. Your gonna hear lrp .28 and picco .28 a lot on the site here caz you cant beat the performance you get for the price you pay.

i don't have much mill-knowledge, but as for Horsepower claims? i think those numbers are fictitious. as for displacement?

compare a 600cc sport bike to a 1340cc harley davidson. not even a contest. the smaller engine sport bike will whip its butt off the line & in top end. Revs much faster & higher (you'll prob get more chicks with a harley tho ;) )


listen how quick my F.28 gets up to rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C6vURWeLDw&feature=related
 
alot judge a engines worth by how easy it is to tune and how well it holds it tune, me I'm power hungry lol
 
Alright what would be a good mill out there for my basher. Cost aside what would be the best. Wher i go bashing is pretty much a quarry with 20+/-ft hill of all types of material, I wnna be able to haul @$$ to the top of that pile and launch it off of it with ease, and if i screw up the landing i want it to come back for more again and again. I plan on getting big air and even biger whipe outs, but i also want something that i know i can depend on, i don't want to be "that guy" trying to get his motor started for 30 min strait while everyone is out there having fun. even though i know it will happen eventualy, i want to prevent this as much as posible.
 
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i say go with the lrp z.28r it is supposed to be really easy to tune, and is very powerful. I have a modded picco .28, i hear it is a little harder to tune than the lrp.
 
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i have a modded P3....and i have no tuning issues with it. i say read the forums and look for something with power and ease of tuning.
 
Combuster said:
i would go with a LRP .30 i heard they are power house mills that are easy on the wallet and easy to tune
Click to expand...

I like what i am hearning about the LRP .30competition. "STUPID QUESTION ALERT!" I don't see a pull start on the competition version and i cant tell if it uses a rotto start type mechanism to get it to turn over.
 
deathrage said:
I like what i am hearning about the LRP .30competition. "STUPID QUESTION ALERT!" I don't see a pull start on the competition version and i cant tell if it uses a rotto start type mechanism to get it to turn over.
Click to expand...


not a stupid question bud, but fyi the competition version of this mill requires a bump start which will not work on a savage, but will work on a truggy.

http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/nitro-engines/18-offroad-engines/produkt/lrp-nitro-motor-zr30-x-competition/details/

I'm not a big fan of mills over .28 , but this mill in pull-start form has kinda peaked my interest after seeing some vids.
 
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can you buy a pull start or rotto start to fit this mill? for $20 more i get more power and RPM's i would hate it if i couldnt make it work. 4.21Hp and 38500 RPM's...(insert tim the tool man grunt here)
 
deathrage said:
can you buy a pull start or rotto start to fit this mill? for $20 more i get more power and RPM's i would hate it if i couldnt make it work. 4.21Hp and 38500 RPM's...(insert tim the tool man grunt here)
Click to expand...

naw, it doesnt work that way. the crank shaft on a roto/pull is different from a bump & bump will not accomodate a pull or roto.
 
so there is no way to make it work? I have to settle for the regular version? Or is there a way to make it work. I'm not to worried about the .1 Hp loss just the dramatic drop in RPM,s i think its 38500 to 34000 which in my eyes is serious enough to try and make the other one work.
 
idk death, i know a guy that sent the mill out to have the crank machined but its prob just cheaper & better to get a .28 lrp or picco and have it professionally modded.

id be will to bet that the modded lrp or picco .28 would outrun that competition .30 in stock form.
 
frddyj said:
idk death, i know a guy that sent the mill out to have the crank machined but its prob just cheaper & better to get a .28 lrp or picco and have it professionally modded.

id be will to bet that the modded lrp or picco .28 would outrun that competition .30 in stock form.
Click to expand...

The only problem with that idea is that i am currently stationed overseas at Osan south Korea and i have not a clue where to start. I don't have much access to machine tools (power drills bench presses, weapons of mass destruction you know "tools") i might be able to get my hands on a dremmel to do minor modifications but as for mill work unless its bolt on or simple enough modifications i don't think i wanna be doing the work myself. Not to mention i have no idea what could be modded on an mill or even where to send it. I haven't gotten that far in my reading and research yet.
 
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deathrage said:
The only problem with that idea is that i am currently stationed overseas at Osan south Korea and i have not a clue where to start. I don't have much access to machine tools (power drills bench presses, weapons of mass destruction you know "tools") i might be able to get my hands on a dremmel to do minor modifications but as for mill work unless its bolt on or simple enough modifications i don't think i wanna be doing the work myself. Not to mention i have no idea what could be modded on an mill or even where to send it. I haven't gotten that far in my reading and research yet.
Click to expand...


imo your savage would be fine with the pull start mill. i agree, i wouldnt tackle modding a mill or internals or anything like that.

only other suggestion i could offer is you could buy a modded picco right from smf & he ships international http://storefront.smfstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=196_325&products_id=2171
 
he gets his motors from extreame RC mods, i emailed them to see what they could do with the LRP. Though i am liking the increase in power out of the picco that they showed.
 
deathrage said:
he gets his motors from extreame RC mods, i emailed them to see what they could do with the LRP. Though i am liking the increase in power out of the picco that they showed.
Click to expand...

If your going that route......do the picco
 
A modified picco .28 will run away from the lrp .28 or .30 even if the lrp's were modded, the picco would still walk away from them no problem. The picco is a better engine in terms of quality and design, once it's modified you will have to spend a pile of cash to get anything to even come close to the performance.
 
Thanks Frddyj, must have posted at the same time lol.
 
frddyj said:
the answer to this question all comes down to your definition of "something better" and your personal preference.

in our 'bash crew' some of us like to run modded piccos, novarossi's, etc., while others are happy with their k.5.9's.

some guys have no problem dropping $400+ on a modded mill to bash while others want to get a decent $100 mill to run. Your gonna hear lrp .28 and picco .28 a lot on the site here caz you cant beat the performance you get for the price you pay.

i don't have much mill-knowledge, but as for Horsepower claims? i think those numbers are fictitious. as for displacement?

compare a 600cc sport bike to a 1340cc harley davidson. not even a contest. the smaller engine sport bike will whip its butt off the line & in top end. Revs much faster & higher (you'll prob get more chicks with a harley tho ;) )


listen how quick my F.28 gets up to rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C6vURWeLDw&feature=related
Click to expand...

you might get more butch chicks with the harley :) someone pulls up on a chromed out ducati 916 v-twin with some kustom paint work and panties are droppin to the floor :D
 
deathrage said:
Alright what would be a good mill out there for my basher. Cost aside what would be the best. Wher i go bashing is pretty much a quarry with 20+/-ft hill of all types of material, I wnna be able to haul @$$ to the top of that pile and launch it off of it with ease, and if i screw up the landing i want it to come back for more again and again. I plan on getting big air and even biger whipe outs, but i also want something that i know i can depend on, i don't want to be "that guy" trying to get his motor started for 30 min strait while everyone is out there having fun. even though i know it will happen eventualy, i want to prevent this as much as posible.
Click to expand...
I have had most of the mills that are talked about here. the list includes
F 4.6
K 4.6
K 4.6 H.o
K 5.9
LRP .28
Picco .28
Novarossi 528

All run in the savage.

My nova a I received modded from JPracing so I don't know how they preform stock. But with what I have played with in the savage I have found the LRP (stock) to be the best running mill I have. I have gone and modded it now and still runs good. My picco stock was a fine mill but the LRP did have a slight edge on it.

Now that the picco is modded I have yet to see any other mill from anyone that can touch it (thanks Robin).

The worst and by far least powerful mill I have owned was the 5.9 hands down. I was sickened by how bad it truly was.

As far as HP claims by the MFGR they are all FAR off. Not many mills top 2 HP w/o modding and Id be shocked if the 5.9 made 1.5! all the other HPI mills have topped it hands down bottom end right threw top end RPM.

Displacement is not the same do to the fact that these are ring-less mills the more piston the more friction big is not better. .30 up mills run of of breath long b4 you want them too.
 
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