Someone tell me I'm wrong. XTM manual error.

[Gazzman]

Ok so just rebuilt my mill from my XTM MT. Was re-fitting the clutch shoes when I noticed the manual seems wrong. The exploded view of the clutch assembly on page 38, shows the shoes the wrong way round.
Looking from the front of the mill (Flywheel end) it rotates counter-clockwise as do most nitro engines. I'm not sure if the shoes can't work right if fitted as per manual. It is the trailing end of the shoe that gets thrown out due to the G-force not the leading side as shown.
I crossed check it against all my HPI Savage manual and all show the shoes fitted the other way.
Am I missing something here, you tell me ?, Look at the 3 photos attached, 1st is the XTM ST manual, 2nd is the XTM MT manual & 3rd is the HPI 4.6 Savage manual, note the difference in the fitting direction between the XTM manual & the Savage one.

 

[Vinni]

Some guy on YouTube flips his clutch shoes opposite way for better bite ? Jason aguw Hobao hyper vt is that wo you mean It wo first time I’d heard or cin it

 

[guinnessdublin]

Yes how strange mate perhaps the manual was printed in Australia! 🤣😂
Ps Sorry couldn’t resist! 👍🏻

 

[Gazzman]

@guinnessdublin, Well like Vinni says in the above post, I have also seen posts on RC Universe where people say the shoes are the other way round. Maybe it's something to do with the bite point when racing, may cause less slip but still can't see it myself.

 

[guinnessdublin]

@Gazzman
Just out of interest are you going to try them fitted that way to see the difference?

 

[Gazzman]

@Gazzman
Just out of interest are you going to try them fitted that way to see the difference?

No mate, fitted them the way I always have and to be honest I to lazy to take the mill back out to change them. How bad is that, LOL.
As with all my models it probably will never get used, will fire it up on the bench to give it a basic tune, then just stick it on the shelf with all the rest.

 

[guinnessdublin]

@Gazzman
Lol fair enough, as you said though can’t see them working great that way anyway as surely with centre of gravity they won’t get thrown out to catch the C/B sides?

 

[Gazzman]

@guinnessdublin
Well that's my point exactly, but have just downloaded the XTM XT2 manual as have just purchased one of these aswell, well most of one anyway. complete minus the front and rear bulkhead/wishbone/diff assemblies. And this manual shows the shoes in the other way round too.
Can't see XTM have got 3 of there manuals wrong. The MMT, MST & now the XT2, that's why I think I'm missing sommit. Going to have to ask this question on another forum as it seems no one on here seems to have an answer to it.
I will get the bottom of it eventually, not that's it really important as I know they will work fine the standard way of fitting them, it's just bugging me that's all, That OCD thing I have.
P.S I have also purchased another XTM MST to use as spares but think it to could become a working model with a little work

Photos 1-4 Photos of the XTM XT2
Photos 5-8 Photos of the 2nd XTM MST, was listed as a Monster Truck but it's a Stadium Truck.

Got the front-end already for the XT2 minus 1 lower wishbone as it is broken, got a spare rear bulkhead, so not much to find for this one.
The MST is almost complete so not sure whether to break or restore it, will probably restore it knowing me.
Plus still got the Frankenstein buggy to sort out.
No wonder I have no free time at the moment. or money, LOL. 🤣

 

[Vinni]

@guinnessdublin
Well that's my point exactly, but have just downloaded the XTM XT2 manual as have just purchased one of these aswell, well most of one anyway. complete minus the front and rear bulkhead/wishbone/diff assemblies. And this manual shows the shoes in the other way round too.
Can't see XTM have got 3 of there manuals wrong. The MMT, MST & now the XT2, that's why I think I'm missing sommit. Going to have to ask this question on another forum as it seems no one on here seems to have an answer to it.
I will get the bottom of it eventually, not that's it really important as I know they will work fine the standard way of fitting them, it's just bugging me that's all, That OCD thing I have.
P.S I have also purchased another XTM MST to use as spares but think it to could become a working model with a little work

Photos 1-4 Photos of the XTM XT2
Photos 5-8 Photos of the 2nd XTM MST, was listed as a Monster Truck but it's a Stadium Truck.

Got the front-end already for the XT2 minus 1 lower wishbone as it is broken, got a spare rear bulkhead, so not much to find for this one.
The MST is almost complete so not sure whether to break or restore it, will probably restore it knowing me.
Plus still got the Frankenstein buggy to sort out.
No wonder I have no free time at the moment. or money, LOL. 🤣

Looking good man yor getting hooked on XTM now how you bin finding the parts searches ? N how much heavier is the mammoth v savage ? The reverse clutch shoe fings coz XTM”s are heavier so it’s to increase power strate off the line but wears down faster n 👍 finally got 3 speed in the post so deffo be after sum tips n tricks mate I'm fincking o flipping 3rd clutch holder round till I'm on point wi 1st t 2nd shift wich needs to b a late 1 coz o the lrp32 torque n then reflip 3rd n tune that from the outside ? Nice 1 fo the 2 speed shimming info as well pal 👍👊

 

[Gazzman]

Looking good man yor getting hooked on XTM now how you bin finding the parts searches ? N how much heavier is the mammoth v savage ? The reverse clutch shoe fings coz XTM”s are heavier so it’s to increase power strate off the line but wears down faster n 👍 finally got 3 speed in the post so deffo be after sum tips n tricks mate I'm fincking o flipping 3rd clutch holder round till I'm on point wi 1st t 2nd shift wich needs to b a late 1 coz o the lrp32 torque n then reflip 3rd n tune that from the outside ? Nice 1 fo the 2 speed shimming info as well pal 👍👊

Well it's almost finished mate, just got to try and sort a shell, no chance of getting an original one in good nick. As far as parts went, it turned out easier than I thought, Most stuff is still around if you cross reference the part numbers between XTM, G.V Models and Reely. The only parts I'm finding it impossible to find are front lower arms as these are the parts that get busted the most, so all stocks seem to have dried up now. Front CVD's are another hard to find part. Found a set the other side of the pond but with shipping costs want they are it's easier to cut and shut ones from other models. The 65T 1st gear also seems impossible to find as is the 2 speed clutch bell. Did manage to get the 65T gear from my local model shop, they had 1 old stock which was a result, but had to import the clutch bell from Melbourne.
Did manage to get another complete truck for parts, so now have the right wishbones & CVD's for it. just got to clean, service & fit them. Also came with the larger fuel tank think it's 260ml but not sure if I will use it as it sits very close to the front centre drive shaft.
Here some more photos of it as it stands this morning. All radio gear now in and setup and new pull start fitted.

As for the weight it ain't that bad, I have Savage XL's that weigh more, so not sure about the clutch shoe thing. Going to stick with the Teflon shoes as don't wont to wear the bell by using Ally ones.

How much did you get the 3 speed for in the end Bro. ??

 

[Vinni]

Well it's almost finished mate, just got to try and sort a shell, no chance of getting an original one in good nick. As far as parts went, it turned out easier than I thought, Most stuff is still around if you cross reference the part numbers between XTM, G.V Models and Reely. The only parts I'm finding it impossible to find are front lower arms as these are the parts that get busted the most, so all stocks seem to have dried up now. Front CVD's are another hard to find part. Found a set the other side of the pond but with shipping costs want they are it's easier to cut and shut ones from other models. The 65T 1st gear also seems impossible to find as is the 2 speed clutch bell. Did manage to get the 65T gear from my local model shop, they had 1 old stock which was a result, but had to import the clutch bell from Melbourne.
Did manage to get another complete truck for parts, so now have the right wishbones & CVD's for it. just got to clean, service & fit them. Also came with the larger fuel tank think it's 260ml but not sure if I will use it as it sits very close to the front centre drive shaft.
Here some more photos of it as it stands this morning. All radio gear now in and setup and new pull start fitted.

As for the weight it ain't that bad, I have Savage XL's that weigh more, so not sure about the clutch shoe thing. Going to stick with the Teflon shoes as don't wont to wear the bell by using Ally ones.

How much did you get the 3 speed for in the end Bro. ??

It looks well nice that pal 👍finck the Hobao mt shell fits or you wonting OG one n paid £ 80 for 3 speed gunna tear it down tnite n inspect it n get up to task ha new ground for me finally 👍

 

[Vinni]

Rebuilt the Hpi f4.6 bro 👊 add twice as much bottom pinch as mine

 

[Gazzman]

Rebuilt the Hpi f4.6 bro 👊 add twice as much bottom pinch as mine

Glad to hear that the piston/sleeve was ok. Always worries me selling parts like that, never know if it's going to be up to the buyers spec.

 

[Vinni]

Glad to hear that the piston/sleeve was ok. Always worries me selling parts like that, never know if it's going to be up to the buyers spec.

I can’t find that shimming advice n pics you sent me bro ? N wo gunna ask does that apply to the 3 speed as well mate ? It wo proper detailed n easy to follow but it’s lost in here sumwere n not the best wi the keyboard stuff 🙏👊

 

[Vinni]

Easy pal me again decided to tear that little Hpi small block down for a good clean it’s all super fresh except for this mark on top o piston ? N noticed there no head shimms i can look into the no shim fing but wo bout that mark bro any ideas pal ? 👍👊

 

[Gazzman]

@Vinni Not seen that before mate but Googled it and it came up with this.

Discoloration (Brown/Blue/Purple): A brown or blue hue on the metal indicates high-temperature oxidation from intense operating temperatures. A dark, discolored crown indicates severe overheating, which can cause the metal to soften and fail.

Possible it's been run very lean at some point in it's life and got very hot. Seeing as the centre of the mark is towards the centre of the piston & the main discolouration moves to one side, probably towards the exhaust port, it could well possible be the cause, but to be honest I haven't seen this before. Have had pistons melt the centre out due to being to lean, maybe you have caught this one in time.

 

[Vinni]

@Vinni Not seen that before mate but Googled it and it came up with this.

Discoloration (Brown/Blue/Purple): A brown or blue hue on the metal indicates high-temperature oxidation from intense operating temperatures. A dark, discolored crown indicates severe overheating, which can cause the metal to soften and fail.

Possible it's been run very lean at some point in it's life and got very hot. Seeing as the centre of the mark is towards the centre of the piston & the main discolouration moves to one side, probably towards the exhaust port, it could well possible be the cause, but to be honest I haven't seen this before. Have had pistons melt the centre out due to being to lean, maybe you have caught this one in time.

Nice 1 pal ive not run it maself n it’s old style so will be ABN ? N maybe it missin a head shim Asnt helped it wo bugging me n wonted to clean it off but it’s a bad burn mark 👍👊

 

[Gazzman]

@Vinni Well it looks like a heat burn to me, anyway what is the make & size of the mill And what does ABN friggin mean.

 

[Vinni]

@Vinni Well it looks like a heat burn to me, anyway what is the make & size of the mill And what does ABN friggin mean.

It’s that little Hpi toki you helped identify n that old stuff nickal plated or summat 👍👊

 

[Gazzman]

Back to the Original question that I asked at the beginning of this post, this is what I have found out.

XTM models, have their clutch shoes installed "backwards"—with the weighted end acting as the trailing edge rather than the leading edge—to increase bite strength and achieve a more aggressive, immediate engagement.
Here is why this is done and the potential consequences:

• Increased Bite (Aggressive Engagement): Instead of the shoe dragging along the inside of the clutch bell, installing them backwards causes the shoe to "dig in" or jam into the bell, providing a firmer grip, especially at lower RPMs.
• Reduced Slippage: This method is often used to maximize power transfer, preventing the clutch from slipping excessively, which is useful for heavier trucks or getting off the line faster.
• Purpose of Design: In a standard setup, the pivot pin is on the leading edge. Reversing this flips the shoe's orientation, making the engagement much sharper and more direct.
• Wear Considerations: While it provides better punch, installing shoes backwards can lead to faster, uneven wear and deformation of the shoes, as they are being forced into the bell rather than gliding.

Note: While some users swear by this method for better performance, others find that it is simply a way to compensate for soft clutch springs, and the "correct" or "standard" way is to have the shoes follow the rotation of the engine

 

[guinnessdublin]

Well every day is a school day as they say mate! 👍🏻

 

[Gazzman]

Well every day is a school day as they say mate! 👍🏻

That it is mate. But I'm old school and stuck in my ways which is why I put all the clutch shoes in the standard way and not the XTM way.

 

[Vinni]

That it is mate. But I'm old school and stuck in my ways which is why I put all the clutch shoes in the standard way and not the XTM way.

👍 ye I researched it. A

That it is mate. But I'm old school and stuck in my ways which is why I put all the clutch shoes in the standard way and not the XTM way.

That it is mate. But I'm old school and stuck in my ways which is why I put all the clutch shoes in the standard way and not the XTM way.

i was same wen it wo suggested to flip my Hobao gt2 shoes fo faster better bite ha not happening 👍👊

 

[Horatio]

Ok so just rebuilt my mill from my XTM MT. Was re-fitting the clutch shoes when I noticed the manual seems wrong. The exploded view of the clutch assembly on page 38, shows the shoes the wrong way round.
Looking from the front of the mill (Flywheel end) it rotates counter-clockwise as do most nitro engines. I'm not sure if the shoes can't work right if fitted as per manual. It is the trailing end of the shoe that gets thrown out due to the G-force not the leading side as shown.
I crossed check it against all my HPI Savage manual and all show the shoes fitted the other way.
Am I missing something here, you tell me ?, Look at the 3 photos attached, 1st is the XTM ST manual, 2nd is the XTM MT manual & 3rd is the HPI 4.6 Savage manual, note the difference in the fitting direction between the XTM manual & the Savage one.

Trailing clutch shoe is the setup that gives more bite to your clutch - that's the way the Savage manual shows the clutch setup. It's correct.

In a monster truck - or any kind of buggy, there isn't really a conceivable or compelling reason why you would put the shoes in a leading orientation. Ever. It certainly wouldn't give you more of anything, other than heat. This will give less bite, more slip and generate a lot of heat. With aluminium shoes - it would be a really bad idea.

With circuit cars, using PTFE shoes, sometimes a leading clutch setup was used in wet weather - to calm down the car on the exit of corners.

I use a Fioroni sliding clutch - so it doesn't lead or trail. 😝