Savage XL 5.9 engine sealing

[toolman207]

Hi everyone

I just bought myself a Savage XL 5.9 RTR, I'm still waiting for it to turn up but I've read a few people are sealing their engine with silicone gasket around the carb neck and crank case. Is this worth doing before using the truck?
Like the truck I'm brand new here be kind The truck is brand new and has all the 2014 mods/upgrades?

thanks in advance

 

[GAJ]

Toolman207

I am new here also, I am new to the Savage XL, but have had other r/c's. I am a casual basher, not an expert. There are many threads that you should read, as I have over the last few weeks. One of the first rules is read the complete manual, second is check everything. Beyond that, locktite all screws that thread into metal. You should check your gear mesh also. You will be learning as you go.

I would say yes to sealing your engine, although I have not done this yet, but I wonder if this cause any issues if you have a warranty claim. Maybe others can advise on this point.

Personally, I had the three screws on the plastic gear in the transmission come lose, caught it before any real damage, but they needed locktite.

 

[JargonBomb]

I'm new to all this as well and enjoying every moment of it!

Download the .pdf manual and get started on learning about your new toy before it gets there. Also, read up on as many posts you can here and on other forums. Like HPISF's affiliate forum RCTALK.COM . If it wasn't for alot of experienced hobbyists posting threads i'd probably be frustrated and selling my SavX on craiglist!

Definately check your Spur Gear to Clutch Bell Mesh before you run it. Check all the screws to make sure they are tight like GAJ mentioned.

I recommend sealing the engine as it helps with tuning and makes the engine run more reliable.

 

[toolman207]

Thanks for the info guys, I haven't owed an RC car for about 14 years, mainly been flying Nitro planes and like my planes reliability is something that I'm looking. I'll definitely check every bolt and the other things you've mentioned and will go ahead and seal the engine from day one. I've seen other people on this thread sealing their engine so I thought it might be worth doing from day one.

 

[jaceracer]

hey man I myself just bought a new savage XL 5.9 haven't ran it yet and I have thought about sealing mine as well but here's my opinion most nitro engines are o'ringd on the back plate and coming from the automotive world o ring's seal a lot better then paper gaskets I myself am going to run it as is see how it does because like one of the guys that commented on your post what if you have problems and you need an engine replacement and hpi tells you to fly a kite and blame it on you sealing the engine I would just check are your screws and bolts and run it as is and then make a decision but its your truck and you make the call I wish you luck hopefully myself has luck too post up after your break in I'm waiting on fuel myself to start mine

 

[toolman207]

hey man I myself just bought a new savage XL 5.9 haven't ran it yet and I have thought about sealing mine as well but here's my opinion most nitro engines are o'ringd on the back plate and coming from the automotive world o ring's seal a lot better then paper gaskets I myself am going to run it as is see how it does because like one of the guys that commented on your post what if you have problems and you need an engine replacement and hpi tells you to fly a kite and blame it on you sealing the engine I would just check are your screws and bolts and run it as is and then make a decision but its your truck and you make the call I wish you luck hopefully myself has luck too post up after your break in I'm waiting on fuel myself to start mine

Hi jaceracer

I do like the, if it ain't broke don't fix it quote but if it's something that has to be done I'd rather do it from the get go. I probably wouldn't use a paper gasket I'd use a high temp permatex silicone, I use to use this on my high performance plane motors running a tuned pipe to make a better seal. It was the difference of something running and not running. The warranty thing doesn't bother me as I will look at an OS replacement down the track. Was just interested to see if this has been improved over time or it's still an on going issue? Be interested to see how your's goes over time if you don't do the seal mod.

thanks for your help mate.

 

[jaceracer]

let me clarify something I might have misled you on, when I was talking about paper gasket I was saying that some rtr come with paper gaskets on the back plate from the factory at which I have experienced them leaking but this one has an oring which shouldn't leak.

 

[toolman207]

let me clarify something I might have misled you on, when I was talking about paper gasket I was saying that some rtr come with paper gaskets on the back plate from the factory at which I have experienced them leaking but this one has an oring which shouldn't leak.

Ah thanks for that mate I guess you've answered my question, I'll leave it be then, I was hoping over time they addressed this.

thanks heaps again.

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

I recommend sealing the engine as it helps with tuning and makes the engine run more reliable.

So are you saying that if the engine doesn't have an air leak, sealing it will make it better? Why wouldn't one just wait until they have a leak? Seems like a risky thing to do if there is no problem. Additionally, I'm not aware of anyone whose engine ran poorly, they validated it had a leak, fixed it, and then the engine suddenly ran better? Of course I'm not saying fixing an air leak would has zero effect, it's just I would really hate to see someone ruin their new engine for no reason. It also seems some of the methods for validating leaks are a little suspect at best, as is the danger of adverse affects from exposing the engine to anything that can possibly be harmful. I guess I'm just too cautious, who knows. -) In the end as long as you have yours running good, that's all that matters. I just would hope others considered the risks/rewards

 

[bildad]

I've had mine about 2 months and have learned a fair bit about these trucks.
If I had to do it all over again this is what I'd do before even doing my idling tanks save you heaps of hassles later.
Some of this has been previously mentioned but I'll give you a list.
1. As mentioned Loctite all screws that go into metal, remove motor with engine mount still attached and make sure you loctite the 4 screws on engine base plate even better, I replaced those four screws with longer ones as the standard screws only make it half way into the alloy mounts.
2. remove carby from motor, remove all needles HSN, LSN and that stupid @#%$ mid needle, which isn't a needle anyway its a seat for the LSN.
With the Mid range put a tiny dab of loctite on the thread ( I mean tiny you don't want any dripping into the carby or getting it on the walls of the hole you just pulled it from) then get yourself some of that you beaut high temp silicon and put a nice bead around the very top Oring (which is painful as you will see when you do it cos it's hard to hang onto, screw it back in flush with the carby body and wipe the excess away you will never have to touch this again.
get some green slime (great stuff) and put a nice bead of this on the threads of the HSN and LSN and screw them back to factory settings.
with the carby put a nice bead of silicon around the Oring of the carby and put your carby back into the motor make sure you get the orientation right or your throttle linkage will be on the wrong side.
3. I did this but probably not necessary since there is an Oring on the engine back plate, put a bead of silicon around the Oring on the back plate and loctite the screws when you put it back in, or some just silicon the flat surface on the block of the engine. remove engine mount and loctite the screws and put it back on the mount.
loctite the screw that holds your clutch bell on.
put the engine back into the truck and get a good mesh with the slipper spur gear when satisfied with that tighten screws so that the engine doesn't move and you keep your good mesh then remove one screw at a time and loctite the 4 screws into place doing each screw diagonally opposite each other.
Use the loctite sparingly you only need a tiny bit on the threads, I use medium strength cos you want to be able to undo it again
4. Get a roll cage, your gonna roll over for sure! or at least put cable ties on the cooling head.
5. chop down the Aerial tube so that it sits just below the height of your roll bar and coil up the excess wire and stash it into your electrics box, make sure you remove the aerial wire before you cut the tubing.
6. some standard spares you are gonna need
exhaust coupling
exhaust gaskets
clutch bearings
tank guard if your gonna do more than just drive in an open field more of a hop up than a spare
shock oil.
spare wheel nuts hexes and pins
after run although some here just use wd 40
inner and outer air filter foams
extra fuel line.
Have I missed anything?
These trucks are great! drive them anywhere.

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

Great list! Completely agree with bearings. While it's obviously important to ensure all the bearings are smooth, there could be danger if some go out completely, such as the clutch bearings, I understand they can wear very quickly.

A few additional things I can think of:
2. Upper arm rod holders. These can easily pop out. I've read where some have used zip ties to keep the bumper arms from spreading, and there is a part you can buy that completely captures it.

3. I forget the part name, but its the plate that holds the lower (inner arm) rods. I assume that is to protect from damage when landing head/rear first but I noticed mine bent (in rear), and my rear toe was off on one side. I believe you can buy stronger ones or double-up the stock ones.

4. Washers for the rod end screws. It appears the rods or the balls wear, and they can pop out. I used some 3mm washers over the flathead screws that has kept the rod ends in place.

5. Servo horns with aluminum gear teeth (assuming you have a servo with plastic teeth)

6.A wider bumper. Seems like the arm rods canbe easily damaged on a if landing hear/rear first on a wheel (causing the arms to spread). I believe there are third party companies who make a wider/stronger bumper for the Savage.

7. Tires. I just tried my new on-road tires 'Road Rage' ;-) and my goodness it's like night and day compared to the stock ones. If running your Savage on multiple surfaces I can't recommend what having the right tire can do.

8. Perhaps an Anti-roll bar? I know it seems odd having one for a truck, but instead of using one to gain traction on the opposite end, I'd think that reducing traction on both ends would beneficial for on-road? This one I cannot say for sure, but it seems to make sense.

9. Shock Springs (for better balancing).

 

[JargonBomb]

After running about 1/4 of a gallon through my SavX, I decided to seal my engine. I noticed a difference on how the engine ran and how easier it was to tune after I did the seal.

An engine with leaks or not. I personally recommend doing it. It gave me a chance to tear down and inspect my engine parts, I lubricated all O-rings with light grease and I was able to add extra insurance by sealing it.

IF I have to do a warranty claim and HPI asks for my engine to inspect the cause of failure, I'm pretty sure a little bit of gasket maker between two pieces of metals wouldn't be the cause.

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

An engine with leaks or not. I personally recommend doing it

I got no problem with that. I disagree, but this is why we are here, correct? To talk Savage, so let's talk Savage,. This is how we all learn.

After running about 1/4 of a gallon through my SavX, I decided to seal my engine. I noticed a difference on how the engine ran and how easier it was to tune after I did the seal.

So you noticed an improvement in performance in addition to the engine being easier to tune after the first 1/4 gallons? That's what, only 3 tanks?. I'm curious when you originally started to tune it? My engine takes close to a full tank just to get the crankcase heat saturated (I guess it's because airflow under the crankcase?) What performance gains did you see and what was easier about the tuning process?

Wouldn't engine manufacturers want a better performing engine in the field and reduce the risk of warranty claims from inexperienced folks who do this? I've had the opportunity to spend time with 'mechanics' of pro racers and 100% of them say it's not needed--their engines run pretty strong IMO. I'd just think somewhere along the line one of them would ave tried it, and being as astute as they are notice any and all improvements,

It gave me a chance to tear down and inspect my engine parts, I lubricated all O-rings with light grease and I was able to add extra insurance by sealing it.

And there is the rub. I'm unsure of what sort of insurance it provides., again to me it seems riskier. Use the instructions on this forum, BTW. Great instructions, and implies a few things. I doubt someone completely new would know to position the piston at TDC so as not to damage the piston skirt. This is one of many things that must be done just right else you will never properly optimize the engine. Even removing the carb requires a special technique (else you will scratch the carb neck--once again defeating the entire purpose. ,.

IF I have to do a warranty claim and HPI asks for my engine to inspect the cause of failure, I'm pretty sure a little bit of gasket maker between two pieces of metals wouldn't be the cause.

Unless acidic vapor fumes begin corroding the aluminum parts when it cured, or the piston skirt was damaged, or the connecting rod was stressed, or bent/missing/improperly placed shims, or [insert many wonderful things that can go wrong]. The worst part is many items occur unknowingly (as in scratches that cannot be seen with the naked eye will throw everything off). ,
But AS I noted...as long as you are happy with your engine that is all that matter...just like those who haven't sealed and are happy with them. Just keep an eye on that engine if you were tuning it a few tanks in, I don;t think that is a good thing.

 

[toolman207]

I've had mine about 2 months and have learned a fair bit about these trucks.
If I had to do it all over again this is what I'd do before even doing my idling tanks save you heaps of hassles later.
Some of this has been previously mentioned but I'll give you a list.
1. As mentioned Loctite all screws that go into metal, remove motor with engine mount still attached and make sure you loctite the 4 screws on engine base plate even better, I replaced those four screws with longer ones as the standard screws only make it half way into the alloy mounts.
2. remove carby from motor, remove all needles HSN, LSN and that stupid @#%$ mid needle, which isn't a needle anyway its a seat for the LSN.
With the Mid range put a tiny dab of loctite on the thread ( I mean tiny you don't want any dripping into the carby or getting it on the walls of the hole you just pulled it from) then get yourself some of that you beaut high temp silicon and put a nice bead around the very top Oring (which is painful as you will see when you do it cos it's hard to hang onto, screw it back in flush with the carby body and wipe the excess away you will never have to touch this again.
get some green slime (great stuff) and put a nice bead of this on the threads of the HSN and LSN and screw them back to factory settings.
with the carby put a nice bead of silicon around the Oring of the carby and put your carby back into the motor make sure you get the orientation right or your throttle linkage will be on the wrong side.
3. I did this but probably not necessary since there is an Oring on the engine back plate, put a bead of silicon around the Oring on the back plate and loctite the screws when you put it back in, or some just silicon the flat surface on the block of the engine. remove engine mount and loctite the screws and put it back on the mount.
loctite the screw that holds your clutch bell on.
put the engine back into the truck and get a good mesh with the slipper spur gear when satisfied with that tighten screws so that the engine doesn't move and you keep your good mesh then remove one screw at a time and loctite the 4 screws into place doing each screw diagonally opposite each other.
Use the loctite sparingly you only need a tiny bit on the threads, I use medium strength cos you want to be able to undo it again
4. Get a roll cage, your gonna roll over for sure! or at least put cable ties on the cooling head.
5. chop down the Aerial tube so that it sits just below the height of your roll bar and coil up the excess wire and stash it into your electrics box, make sure you remove the aerial wire before you cut the tubing.
6. some standard spares you are gonna need
exhaust coupling
exhaust gaskets
clutch bearings
tank guard if your gonna do more than just drive in an open field more of a hop up than a spare
shock oil.
spare wheel nuts hexes and pins
after run although some here just use wd 40
inner and outer air filter foams
extra fuel line.
Have I missed anything?
These trucks are great! drive them anywhere.

A lot of great information there thanks for taking the time to list everything.

Great list! Completely agree with bearings. While it's obviously important to ensure all the bearings are smooth, there could be danger if some go out completely, such as the clutch bearings, I understand they can wear very quickly.

A few additional things I can think of:
2. Upper arm rod holders. These can easily pop out. I've read where some have used zip ties to keep the bumper arms from spreading, and there is a part you can buy that completely captures it.

3. I forget the part name, but its the plate that holds the lower (inner arm) rods. I assume that is to protect from damage when landing head/rear first but I noticed mine bent (in rear), and my rear toe was off on one side. I believe you can buy stronger ones or double-up the stock ones.

4. Washers for the rod end screws. It appears the rods or the balls wear, and they can pop out. I used some 3mm washers over the flathead screws that has kept the rod ends in place.

5. Servo horns with aluminum gear teeth (assuming you have a servo with plastic teeth)

6.A wider bumper. Seems like the arm rods canbe easily damaged on a if landing hear/rear first on a wheel (causing the arms to spread). I believe there are third party companies who make a wider/stronger bumper for the Savage.

7. Tires. I just tried my new on-road tires 'Road Rage' ;-) and my goodness it's like night and day compared to the stock ones. If running your Savage on multiple surfaces I can't recommend what having the right tire can do.

8. Perhaps an Anti-roll bar? I know it seems odd having one for a truck, but instead of using one to gain traction on the opposite end, I'd think that reducing traction on both ends would beneficial for on-road? This one I cannot say for sure, but it seems to make sense.

9. Shock Springs (for better balancing).

Hey thanks for adding to the list very helpful, what steering servo upgrade do you recommend? in the past of owning other RC cars the steering servo was always pretty weak.

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

No worries..it's a great topic. I use this horn:
I personally started using a HiTec 7955. It might be too much depending on where you drive it. You can get less expensive ones that will most lkely yield good results.

I just thought of another item when you mentioned, steering. /

You can replace the bushings that swivel against the steering plates step screws for bearings. After our very first off-road session I took the truck apart and noticed the steering was sluggish even with the steering horn removed. It turns out many of the components binding due to screws being improperly tightened, "gunk" in places where things should swivel , etc (all the way out to the carriers themselves). So I'd say keeping the steering unit free pf any sort of binding is beneffical as well

One other place to thread lock: your servo horn screw (if you have metal servo gears). At first I was hesitant to do this but called HiTec and they said not only is it okay, but they recommend it. My hobby shop sells a wicking grade thread lock (capillary penetration of the threads)..very easy to use.

 

[toolman207]

No worries..it's a great topic. I use this horn:
I personally started using a HiTec 7955. It might be too much depending on where you drive it. You can get less expensive ones that will most lkely yield good results.

bush land is where I'll be driving it i'm the type of person that likes to do things once and or hope to anyway. Will that servo you suggested drop straight in?

 

[JargonBomb]

I definately notice my running temperatures are more stable and my RPM changes now whenever I adjust the Idle screw.

My SavX has almost gone through 1.5 gallons and it's running great!

 

[bildad]

Yeah it's been a great learning curve, working on this beast I have 3 mates with savage xl's and we bash them hard in a local quarry where we have conjured a bit of a track in really rough terrain my car is the oldest running the stock 8 small shocks no hop ups as yet except for the tank guard, I am running the original servos SF5 steering and SF1 Throttle they haven't missed a beat touch wood.
It took about 10 litres of fuel 20% before I got the engine to finally crack and now it goes like a shower of poop!!! Yeee Haaaar!
We generally go once a weekend for a bash and go through about 2.5 Litres of fuel each.
Started to tune my car at just below the bottom shelf in the fuel tank because of the dreaded Half Tank Lean issue but since have added a longer fuel line to carby with about a 2 inch dia loop and I can barely discern the difference when I get below the half a tank although I love it when it goes slightly lean the response is awesome! and the extra time you get to run and flip your car back over after a roll.
I just bought a second hand roller with alloy upper and lower arms and sway bars and 4 big bore alloy shocks so should be interesting to see how that goes,
BLAT is my motto (brake late and turn).

 

[toolman207]

Yeah it's been a great learning curve, working on this beast I have 3 mates with savage xl's and we bash them hard in a local quarry where we have conjured a bit of a track in really rough terrain my car is the oldest running the stock 8 small shocks no hop ups as yet except for the tank guard, I am running the original servos SF5 steering and SF1 Throttle they haven't missed a beat touch wood.
It took about 10 litres of fuel 20% before I got the engine to finally crack and now it goes like a shower of poop!!! Yeee Haaaar!
We generally go once a weekend for a bash and go through about 2.5 Litres of fuel each.
Started to tune my car at just below the bottom shelf in the fuel tank because of the dreaded Half Tank Lean issue but since have added a longer fuel line to carby with about a 2 inch dia loop and I can barely discern the difference when I get below the half a tank although I love it when it goes slightly lean the response is awesome! and the extra time you get to run and flip your car back over after a roll.
I just bought a second hand roller with alloy upper and lower arms and sway bars and 4 big bore alloy shocks so should be interesting to see how that goes,
BLAT is my motto (brake late and turn).

That's good info in regards to tuning the truck half full if it leans out like you say, thanks again and thanks everyone for your advice everything has been taken on board.

 

[jaceracer]

There's also another fuel tank mod you can do it requires bypassing the stock fuel port on the tank and buying a dubro 539 and you just use a 1/8 drill bit and install it on the backside of the fuel tank it comes with q sealing washer basically converts it like the tmaxx imo here is the video link.

 

[toolman207]

There's also another fuel tank mod you can do it requires bypassing the stock fuel port on the tank and buying a dubro 539 and you just use a 1/8 drill bit and install it on the backside of the fuel tank it comes with q sealing washer basically converts it like the tmaxx imo here is the video link.

So with this mod because the new nipple is mounted at the bottom of the tank you no longer need to use a fuel clunk? I've also read a few times where people mention the loop in the fuel line that goes to the carb can you explain the theroy of the loop in the fuel line?

thanks

 

[jaceracer]

this guy can explain it better then me

 

[toolman207]

this guy can explain it better then me

Thanks for that, definitely something that I'll be doing. I'm so glad I signed up here heaps of great info for a smooth maiden or whatever RC car guys call it.

 

[Jam Racing 1]

Funny this guy in these videos always has brand new looking equipment that looks to have never seen dirt or even been started,makes one wonder just how expert the advice can be at this point....

 

[toolman207]

Funny this guy in these videos always has brand new looking equipment that looks to have never seen dirt or even been started,makes one wonder just how expert the advice can be at this point....

When I first started flying planes many years ago there were a lot of guys that would have all sorts of info but never fly their planes lol. I assume from your name your a staff member from HPI? is the fuel tank lean issue not real? With these trucks I don't really know much about them yet, be happy to hear your thoughts.

thanks

 

[griff7373]

Funny this guy in these videos always has brand new looking equipment that looks to have never seen dirt or even been started,makes one wonder just how expert the advice can be at this point....

True but give him points for the choice bottle in the background of the second video.

 

[GAJ]

I have seen a lot of postings on Savage Central by Squid, and have seen a few videos and reviews by him. I think he is quite legitimate. Just my opinion.

 

[Jam Racing 1]

When I first started flying planes many years ago there were a lot of guys that would have all sorts of info but never fly their planes lol. I assume from your name your a staff member from HPI? is the fuel tank lean issue not real? With these trucks I don't really know much about them yet, be happy to hear your thoughts.

thanks

I am staff here at I am not affiliated with the company HPI at all.... and yes the half tank lean issues are a problem for some of the guys running the savage, best advice I can give for using the stock Savage tank is to refill it when it reaches the stepped portion of the tank and usually this HTL issue solves itself...

 

[Jam Racing 1]

I have seen a lot of postings on Savage Central by Squid, and have seen a few videos and reviews by him. I think he is quite legitimate. Just my opinion.

I am sure some of his advice is very good for some people, I was merely stating with his clean & new looking vehicles I would not put much stock in his advice for me personally.... there seem to be many youtube videos out there by some people of questionable authority the last few years and for me personally I am skeptical of people who give such advice, I prefer to do what works for me and stick with what I know will work.... I have 30 plus years experience with electric and nitro vehicles and my own experiences usually serve me pretty well....

 

[toolman207]

I am staff here at I am not affiliated with the company HPI at all.... and yes the half tank lean issues are a problem for some of the guys running the savage, best advice I can give for using the stock Savage tank is to refill it when it reaches the stepped portion of the tank and usually this HTL issue solves itself...

I'll see how mine goes, I'd rather not have to fill it up every half tank so I aussme from what your saying there is an upgraded tank to slove this issue?