Perry Fuel Pump Install

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ScooterB

Well-Known Member
Messages
177
Location
Layton, Utah
Perry fuel pump install.

What is needed:
1-Perry VP-30 Fuel pump (clamp, fitting, and pressure line included) $30
1-Perry one way valve $8
1-1/8" vacuum T $0.25 (2 needed for optional routing)
1-6-32 pressure fitting (for fuel tank return) $1.59
1' fuel line $0.99
1- 6-32 tap and drill. $4.95

First you will need to decide where to mount the pump. I chose to mount on the back side of the shock tower so that it was protected and out of the way. Its not perfect but the best compromize I found on a Stock Savage X
Keep in mind that you will want to take the following into consideration when choosing a location;
1. The pump should be mounted so that the pump outlet is as close as possible to the level of the carb line fitting.
2. The pump cc line should be above the cc tap location so that any fluid buildup will drain back to the cc.
3. The recomended tap location is on the right side of the engine cc so that excess fluid is not slung up to the tap area by the crank and con rod.
4. The pump should be mounted within reach of the supplied cc tubing. (Modified in this install)

I chose to use the plastic clamp supplied with the pump mounted to the bottom of the upper crossmember of the shock tower. To do this I used a sharpie to mark a line where the clamp met the crossmember then using the reference line on the clamp marked the location of the hole on top of the tower. (Body mount removed) I then drilled a 1/8" hole in the top of the tower and used an extra flathead screw, nut, and washer to mount the pump. I also used a small piece of 2 sided tape between the clamp and pump for extra holding power. I mounted the inlet of the pump facing down but you may want to run your lines differently. Reinstalling the body mount clips is a little tricky but I found that I could move the pump just enough to get them back in. I don't remove these often anyway.

Next remove the fuel tank. The recomended setup is to add an extra fitting to the fuel tank for the fuel return line. I chose this method and used a 6-32 pressure fitting from my lhs. I drilled the tank with the drill bit supplied with my 6-32 tap and screwed the fitting into the tank. Method 2 would be to use a T fitting to the fuel line coming from the tank. This would recirculate the fuel through the pump rather than returning it to the tank. This may work better to keep fuel in the lines in the case of a rollover. (I'm going to try this on the second install for a comparison)

Next remove and disassemble the engine. In the pics you will notice that I did not remove the crank because I couldnt get the pinch fitting lose. I recommend removing the crank and bearings. The recomended location for the tap is through the motor mount due to the thicker material, but can be mounted above the mount. I chose to go through the mount due to frame rail clearance issues. (NOTE; This will not in any way decrease the structural integrity of the engine. This is a small hole and may be plugged with a 6-32 set screw if it is ever decided that you no longer want to use the pump.) ( Another good reason to go through the mount.)

Looking down through the cylinder ( Piston and sleeve removed but with backplate in position) I marked the location that I felt would be best for the hole (slightly behind the con rod but in front of the back plate and starter plate.

Now its time to reach down, check and see if your a man (No offense ladies) and grab a drill. You will want to drill right in the center of the mount and drill straight through using the 6-32 tap drill bit. (make sure that the crank is turned away from the drill location if still installed so that it is not damaged when the drill comes through!) I turned the engine so that the backplate opening was facing down and I had a clear view of the drill and its orientation to the mounting tabs. After you are done tap the engine on your bench and remove the debrit from the hole. After wiping the inside of the cc I blew through the backplate opening covering all other openings except the tap so that any debrit in the hole would be blown out of the engine.Be careful not to turn it over and drop the shavings into the bearings if your crank is still installed. Then using the 6-32 tap, tap the threads. It is not necessary to go very deep. Again clean all debrit from the engine. If you are using a compressor try to refrain from using it until after the cc is wiped clean as you may blow debrit into the bearings. You may now take a deep breath and relax. This sounds more complicated than it is. Basically think about what your doing and remember to keep everything clean and drill straight. You may actually use a smaller drill to go all of the way through if desired using the 6-32 bit to just drill deep enough for the tap. I do recommend removing the crank and then cleaning the engine well before reassembly.

Reassemble the engine and reinstall the engine and fuel tank back into the truck.

From the fuel tank (Stock pickup location) I ran a fuel line down through the bottom of the shock tower and connected it to the inlet side of the pump. The pump has arrows indicating flow direction. From the outlet of the pump I have a short fuel line running to a fuel filter that I have pinched between the tower and the body mount. (It works) Then from the filter the line runs to the carb. As close to the carb as possible install a 1/8 T fitting for the fuel return line. From the T fitting run a fuel line to the new fitting on the fuel tank. Or install another T fitting into the fuel line coming from the tank but before the pump if you have chosen option 2.

The fuel tank must be vented to allow air to enter as fuel is consumed. To do this install the one way valve to a short piece of tubing so that the flow will allow air to enter the tank. (DO NOT CONNECT TO THE EXHAUST PRESSURE FITTING) The check valve is used to prevent fuel from spilling in a rollover. From the one way I ran a fuel line to a fuel filter which I mounted to the bottom of the rollbar using zip ties. I used an antenna cap to cap the exhaust pressure fitting.

Next you need to connect the tap from the cc to the pump. In the location on the rear of the shock tower the line is about 1/2" too short. I contacted Gary at Conley Precision and he advised that it would be ok to add a short piece of brass tubing in the middle of the line. My LHS had plenty in stock. I cut a piece about 1" long and spliced into the tubing.

Install Complete.

To prime the pump simply crank the engine. I have rotostart and the pump self primes. Should also work with pullstart.

As for tuning I found that I had to increase the pressure on the pump by turning the adjustment screw in. Reset LSN and HSN to factory settings. (Rich) At first the bottom will be very rich so some adjustments will be necessary. Start the engine and warm it up, then run to WOT. The engine should run rich at WOT. If not adjust the pump until a rich setting is achieved. After the pump is adjusted proceed to adjust the HSN until WOT settings are correct. Then adjust LSN.
I found that more adjustment was required for the LSN than the HSN which was expected due to the fuel pressure which was non existent at idle with an exhaust pressure sytem.

In the testing that I have done I have found that the adjustments stay very consistent throughout my runs regardless of fuel tank levels. Restarting the engine is very easy and after tuning the engine is very snappy and responsive. The engine will also idle smoothly for hours if you want to burn up your bellgear bearings. It seems a little on the fat side in the midrange but not so much that I have any problems with it. A 3 needle carb would be a benefit to this install.
I would also like to note that I am at 4400 feet above sea level so my tuning is different than someone closer to sea level.


Now enjoy!
 
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Seems like alot of work, I have been looking into this topic alot. Has anyone tried the hyper valve from rb innovations? Seems like a one way check valve which would prevent the pressure from returning to the pipe on deceleration thus keeping the pressure somewhat constant on and off the throttle. I also looked into the constant pressure device that team orion has which is adjustable, but if you adjust it to maintain a certain pressure with a full tank wouldn't that cause a lean condition as the fuel level dropped, thus not correcting the half lean issue. Just curious about this hyper vavle thing.
 
Its really not that much work. Took almost as long to type the instructions.
I'm not familiar with the hyper valve but many companies make one way valves. Including Perry as one is used in this system. The problem with the one way on the tank is that when the engine dies the pressure remains and as long as there is pressure it will push fuel into the engine flooding the engine or even causing a hydro lock situation which will destroy the engine when you try to start it. As well tuning will be hit and miss due to variable pressure. So you actually want the pressure to stop when the engine does. I thought about it before the pump and ruled it out due to the problems. Another company does make a pump and regulator but it pressurizes the tank to a rather high pressure which may cause the tank to fail and according to the reviews was not as reliable or well made as the perry pump.
The other point that keeps getting missed is head pressure. Even with constant pressure on the tank the full tank of fuel weighs more and creates more pressure. As the tank empties the weight is reduced therefore reducing the head pressure. This was discounted in another post as being too minimal to affect the issue but if you realize that the fuel pressure at the carb is only 1/4 psi and you figure the percentage of change it is more dramatic.
I haven't had the opportunity to do a ton of testing due to weather but from what I have done I can say that power from the stock mill is incredible with this. I had my sons truck out last weekend doing some tuning runs and from a dead stop on dry pavement I nailed the throttle and the truck went into a blazing 4 wheel burnout. this is with 40 series mashers and heavy beadlocks. I actually need more traction so I can pull wheelies.

Good Luck
 
Well I tried a one way valve and all I noticed was when I let off the throttle the rpm to a second or two to settle so the valve doesn't seem to be effective. This pump sounds intresting, you say you noticed an increase in power too?
 
rb innovations = wasted cash!
like the S/C kit they have? what a joke!

instead of buying some contraption that is basically run off a rubber band, why not just do one of several things:

1. Port & polish the sleeve.
2. Buy another mill for the same cost.
3. Change your gear ratio.
4. Buy a different pipe
5. Buy or modify your header
Etc..etc...

These all (above) are all in comparison (or) have more power outputs anyhow, for which some like the engine at the same costs. When other things are much cheaper, but ALL more affective!

when i seen that pos supercharger i laughed sooooo hard, i think i lost a nut.

hahaha
 
Jer0219
Yes I did notice a dramatic increase in power when nailing the throttle from idle. I wasnt expecting that so a real nice benefit. Certainly way cheaper than a new motor, pipe, or porting. And since there will no longer be any lean runs the motor life should be drastically improved which will more than offset the cost of the pump.
I read an article researching this pump where someone had installed the pump in an airplane and claims he has not had to readjust the pump or carb in 5 years.
Once tuned there really is very little need to readjust because its easier to get it right and it stays consistent throughout the level of the tank. Although I would recommend always checking it due to barometric pressure, temperature, and humidity fluctuations.

The benefits of the pump are:
1. Consistent tuning, No Midlean.
2. Easier starting
3. Smoother idle
4. More power! Off the line and top end.
5. Cooler consistent temps
6. Longer engine life

Personally I don't understand the hesitation on this mod. I think most are either afraid to drill the case or want to stand by there own remedy. Its really not that difficult although probably not for anyone not mechanically inclined. But even those should have a friend that could help them.
I think that the idea is going to grow as more try it and realize the benefits.
 
Personally I don't understand the hesitation on this mod. I think most are either afraid to drill the case or want to stand by there own remedy.

I think that the idea is going to grow as more try it and realize the benefits.

ive never heard of this pump until you introduced it in your thread. i think many have not tried it just cuz they've never heard of it. i agree that more peeps will prob try the mod as it gains more discussion and such.

comes down to preference a lot of times too when peeps choose 1 method over another.

sounds like you got some good results on your savage scooter, id like to see a vid of it runnin' around if you got a cam.

+1 to you for tryin' somethin new & bringin' it to the site to increase the knowledge base here. rockout
 
well, to each thier own i guess....
ive ported & polished my Wasp26, etc...

and i see enough gains, not too buy a RB product.

.02
 
I haven't had anyone to shoot a video yet as ive been out alone. But as the weather gets nicer I will get some vid as I think everyone is curious to actually see how it runs.

Be patient its coming.
 
what are you going on about swampdog? you makin no sense to me here..

anyways ive been watching this thread, and imo you did a great job, very clean install just need the video now =)
 
right....my bad, however, i still wouldnt buy this "Perry" pump either.
Thats fine. Ignorance is bliss. If you really don't know anything about it maybe you should do some research on it before making any comments. Until then keep it to yourself. Ive spent a lot of time researching this and talking to actual engine designers and engineers. (the ones who have actual degrees)
Quite frankly I'm tired of the opinions of those who are self pronounced "experts" who only make comments to try to sound knowlegeable when they are not.
As well I've spent 6 years as an Apache helicopter crew chief (mechanic) 1 year of college level auto mechanics, as well as 3 years high school mechanics and I own my own auto parts business. I am not the average hobbyist or backyard mechanic. I know and understand far more about engines, fuel delivery and engineering than most. And what I don't know I research and ask from those who do.
You know what they say about opinions theyre like ********. Everyone has one and they all stink. Stick to the facts.
 
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All these "additonal" add-ons, scuh as the RB, Perry, etc... are a complete waste of time and I'm most cases cash. You can obtain just as much gains from tuning the engine properly!

Pump...Bah!
Supercharger...Bah!

All gimicks in imo, but i will agree, he did a great job installing it.
 
I'll bet my stock 4.6 with pump will beat your ported aftermarket engine.
Waste of cash? Hmmm thats a thought.

Proper tuning? For what that two minute window when the fuel level is just right?

With pump the tuning is right on from full to empty. Which is all the time.
 
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arrogance is bliss eh' lmao!

ive been in RC for over 15 yrs to even know what i have is good enough. You do not need this pump, and i have seen 1 person run it....You! lol

have fun with it, 23g of extra strap on
 
keep it freindly men

we love to get the different opinions

:resp:
 
I agree with Crash, Keep it calm. Nothing to get worked up about.

The Pump may not be needed but may actually be a great addition and help with the tune keeping things consistent. Swamp have you tried this it may actually work or it may not. I will not state either way as I have not tried it. Correct I probably will never try it as I don't need it.

I guess moral of the story don't knock it till ya try it or its proven not to work.
 
arrogance is bliss eh' lmao!

ive been in RC for over 15 yrs to even know what i have is good enough. You do not need this pump, and i have seen 1 person run it....You! lol

have fun with it, 23g of extra strap on

A whole 15 years? These pumps have been around for over 20 years and have been widely used and are very popular in rc aircraft. Why they haven't been used more with cars I don't know. Maybe just plain lack of interest or people just don't know about them.
O.S. Engines actually produced an engine with this pump.

For those who do want to know more and gain knowlege I recomend checking out these sites;

http://www.perrypumps.com/
http://www.conleyprecision.com/
http://www.conleyprecision.com/online_videos.htm
http://www.clevelandheli.co.uk/Perry Fuel Pump.htm
http://www.curtisyoungblood.com/faqs/search.php?category=Perry Pump
http://www.curtisyoungblood.com/faqs/search.php?id=40
http://saito-engines.info/pumps.html
http://www.heliproz.com/p30install.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0xZOIN9_RY
 
Good work Scooter, I to cant wait to see a vid of your truck running...:resp:

IMO the pump is going to help keep fuel presure consistent which can only be a good thing...plus it looks cool kinda looks like nitrous oxide has been installed.
 
$42 is well worth a try, thanks for post....
 
scooter
A local hobby shop has that o.s kit but they want 130 for that pump canadian dollars. but if it makes that much of a differance it may be worth is considering the amount I have already spent on my truck, I have a new lrp z28 and buku pipe, and being an xl lots of room to mount the pump.
 
looks like a good build man. be interested in a vid aswel. if i had access to a drill press and an older engine to test it out on, id give it a shot.
scooter your at the beginning stages of bringing something new to the world of rc trucks (yes its a old system BUT....) many don't know about it so therefore you have to educate everyone on it and convince others to do it. once it picks up you can do the i told u so routine, but until then NOONE should say its junk your useless one person has done it and says it works great.... who will be the next?
 
Awesome mod! I tip my hat to you, sir! Thats RC modelbuilding at its best. When I find the nerves to drill a hole into my engine, I might try this as well. :40gulp:

:resp:
 
I am seriously considering this fuel pump for my 4.6x rtr, I've gotta open it up to replace a cracked back plate and that would be the perfect time to drill'er and seal'er. It definately sounds like a good idea, and I'm game for anything that makes it easier to tune.crash the mancrash the man
 
Thanks guys.

Had them out this weekend and mine is running fantastic. Only problem, and why i didnt get vid was that i blew the carrier bearings in the rearend after only five minutes of running.

My sons has an engine problem (I think it has an air leak either in the backplate or front bearing) so I am in the process of repairing both.

I have plans to meet up with a couple guys this weekend so I hope to get you all some video.
 

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