Nitro superchargers... good or bad?

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Squirrel

Active Member
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57
Debunking the Supercharger Myth

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**Note- video on theory and another on running the SC are included after theory, build, and review segments**

Superchargers are a grand and mysterious thing, aren’t they? They are so grand that I am going to have to post this in the RC FAQ section and also in the nitro engine sections. Why? Because this question pops up from time to time and I want people to understand why they are not worth it.

There is also another thing that is wrong with the other threads concerning superchargers- people want opinions based off of personal facts and not theories. I will give you both. I have a force .26 engine that I am willing to sacrifice. I am going to run it without the supercharger and video the performance and then install the charger. I will then video the performance there as well. This way, this review is not only first hand with theory backing it…. But you will be able to see the difference! Hopefully this will be a conclusive look at the supercharger myth.

I do not think that anyone else has done a story like this so it will be an interesting read… whether if you are for, against, or just curious. And I think that I am taking this from the right angle.

Why does it not work?

Without getting into quantum nitro engine physics (there are a lot of arm chair engineers out there that will debate just like Star Trek fans will debate on how many episodes there were of the original series) the operations of the engine is simple to understand why this would not work in a hobby based environment but it would in a practical diesel environment.

For a nitro engine to work, air is pumped into the engine via the carburetor. The air is then mixed with the pressurized flow of nitro fuel and the two mix or become “atomized”. This mixture then enters the case of the engine via the main intake port. The rear exhaust is left open initially and this why it is important to have a good tuned pipe for your particular engine. Upon explosion, a wave will travel to the end of the pipe at the speed of sound and then bounce back. This “echo wave” or “plugging wave” will block the exhaust port in a perfectly timed engine/ pipe fit. The piston is then free to compress fully at the top, causing the explosion, sending the piston down to reset the entire cycle.

The folly to the supercharger is that the intake port and the exhaust ports are open at the same time. Two stroke diesels engines, on the other hand and why it will work with them, have exhaust valves allowing the air to stay within the chamber. But, with both ends open, the increase of air will push out and the plugging wave will not stop all of the leak and it will go right through.

This will then cause you to run your engine rich. Why rich? More air for the power will leave it running lean. Nitro engines rev high to begin with. This will suck more gas through the engine to compensate for the increased air and thus causing more wear, a higher rev, increased costs in replacement sleeves and pistons, and a very burned out engine.

The other interesting conclusion is the added 15 to 30% (ball park) more HP. When you consider that you are now running a belt on the crankshaft now then that power will be robbed as the engine is pulling the RC and now a impeller. It would be one thing to test a engine with no RC load on it (ie: no transmission, diff, or tire resistance to pull as well) as the impeller will not seem as wearing on it then.

And lastly, in the hobby there is a demand for faster and more HP engines. Every RC manufacturer out there is trying to improve on their engines to get the fastest and most HP out of a tiny hobby engine as possible Lets face it, it wins races and every driver wants it. And if a engine company could do it with perfect results then every Drake, Coleman, Maifield, etc out there would want it as it means more sponsorship, more cash, and every weekend warrior out there will want that engine. It’s the whole stadium logic of “seats are for asses” and to get as many seats married with asses for the night to turn the profit. So, if racers want it then hobbyists like you and I will want it as well. We want the full on grunting engine that will tear the snot out of the landscape, drive axles, and strip a tranny in 2 minutes. Ok… maybe not that much as it can get a little expensive on that level. But, the point is that there is a market for a engine that slobbers power.

So where is it? Advances have been made in the nitro engine industry over the past few years. That is definitely a fact that no one can deny. But, the RB superchargers and other makes have been out for years. Over 5 in fact. In that same amount of time we saw brushed motors get replaced with brushless motors. Nicad get replaced with NiMH as that technology got to have the same punch and also longer run times through larger cell capacity. The NiMH was then replaced by LiPo creating less weight, more power, and more capacity. And now we are looking at the A123 technology nipping at out heels. All of these advances and yet superchargers and super engines are still back in the turn of the century technology and noone buys em. Why? They do not work, though if they did, there is a market for em and everyone would have them by now.

Think about it.

Installation

Installation was pretty straight forward. There was one aspect of the installation that I did not like and that was that the frame of the supercharger does not fully sit well on the mount. I know that this one was for another BB kit but a buggy/ truggy is a buggy or a truggy and they should be somewhat universal in the way that they sit. Some exceptions of course, but for the most part, not really. With that way of thinking, a big block is a big block engine and the only way to mount the kit was to lower it on to the engine mount spacers. I think that RB should include a spacer for the other end as this will sit too high otherwise.
 
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The instructions did a great job on explaining the belt and how it worked with the impeller. However, the actually installation to the kit should have a few diagrams as this tends to attract newer people in the hobby. Catering to the market for this, I would think that they would want to freshen up on the instructions.

This is what the packaging of the kit looks like new:

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If you care to read their spiel:

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And this is what you get with the kit:

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Installation is fairly easy. Basically, you need to remove your entire clutch bell assembly so that you can use their special flywheel. This flywheel is grooved so that the belt can go around the flywheel and start to turn the impeller while the engine is at idle and throttle.

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With that done, you will want to mount the supercharger to one side of the engine mount. It is going to be preferred that you mount it above the engine block where the screws go through. However, this will make the supercharger sit really high. If you do not have the room for it you can put it above the mount or a spacer. Just be sure to counter the difference on the other side with washers of the same thickness.

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With the kit mounted, wrap the band around the flywheel and the wheel for the impeller. There is a plastic piece that swivels in and out. This is to keep the band in place like a guide. Be sure to swing it out and tighten it a little as it will shake loose.

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With the super charger on, all that is left is to put the clear tube on. Cut a piece that will go around the carb and the super charger.

That is it… you are done!

Personal Review- how well it worked

If anyone gets one of these, order two engines at the same time to save on shipping! More seriously though, you will want to run the engine first without the supercharger to get a feel for it like I did. I am glad that I did as I had a lot of fun running the new Force .26. It started up instantly, easy to tune, and was a really peppy engine. Granted, I have had this engine before and I know how it gets to be later on in life. Which is why I was cautious with it and wanted to get the supercharger on as quick as possible.

With the supercharger on I started to experience a slew of problems. The first real issue that I noticed was that on the first start up it was very lean. I tuned the Force to be rich as I knew that the SC would want it to be that way. I had to richen it out immediately. At the end of the 3 minute test run the engine was smoking hot. Fuel was already coming out of the pipe when it ran but I played with the needles anyways. Basically, everything that I knew about nitro no longer existed. I finally got it purring, still hot, but was digging it a little bit with a little finesse on the needles. Shut it down and threw it into the back of my truck.

The next day I took the buggy out at work. There is a forest trail behind the building that leads to a huge open quarry lot. The plan was to have it rompin through the forest. It would have been awesome with the loose dirt and bumpy ground. I grabbed a buddy from work to hold the camera. After 10 minutes of trying to get it to start we gave up.

I took the kit home and wrenched on it some more. Got it purring after some effort and through it back into the truck. To the quarry I go! Grabbed a friend, ran down to the place, and no starting there either. After the quarry we went to the beach. Again, no dice.

I was pretty flustered at this point in time. Here I am weeks over due on the project and no video footage of the thing running. I finally was tinkering with it at home and noticed what was happening. The excess air was pushing the fuel out of the fuel tube and back into the fuel tank. Plugging the tip of the pipe did not help prime it either as it would still push the fuel back. It was a pain to start it again, but I finally did, grabbed the wife, and told her to film. That is the first scene. Finally something was caught on film! I stopped the engine after 4 minutes as it was smoking hot.

With the engine cooling, and finally realizing why it was not starting, we decided to go for a walk to this dirt lot for the last half of the video series. My glow lighter was starting to die at this point in time but I did get it started and a few more times. I was able to pick up a few more minutes worth of footage and had to stop over a severely over-heated engine where the compression was starting to seriously go.

Now, the Force is not the best engine to begin with. I realize that. I knew that the compression would go on it as they tend to die in half a gallon to one full gallon of use. However, the stress of the super charger really impacted the lifespan of the engine. Priming was a severe challenge and the excess air from that impeller caused a huge lean state as it pushed uncombusted fuel out of the engine and out the pipe when the piston was on its down swing. Combine that with pushing fuel back into the tank, and well, you have a fried engine!

All I can say is this. You have the theory on the first section and now you have the practical… do not buy one!

Grade-
Idea and concept- A
Actual use- F

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Videos

***Keep in mind that the last song of the second video has some bad words on it***
Vid 1:
http://www.youtube.com/v/u4yTADlRuF0

Vid 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwH7lgbc18s
 
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Need to take turkey out of oven and baste it... I will shrink the pics when I am done 😉
 
I have been talking people out of those garbage scs for years. Gotten in a few heated arguments. Finally video proof. the supercharger issue has been buried. Thanks Squirrel.
 
that is such a awsome write up and vids!! i've always wondered about superchargers!!and now theres actually experience behind the theory that super chargers arent worth the money!!!! and it does make sense that running a super charger would put more stress on a engine!!!
 
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There we go! Pics fixed =)

I get people trying to scrap with me on the subject still. They cannot work due to the design of the hobby level engines. I had a guy last month call me an A-hole becuase I was ruining his business as he sold them and challenged me to a race! LMAO!

Some people on the internet take themselves way too seriously!

But, what I have learned is that there are numerous ways to do anything RC. And the people who flame over stuff that they do not like becuase it is not what they want to hear or what they do, well... a simple video of it working tends to silence them. =) That, and polite and kind words.
 
Great write up & vids , i'm going to foward this to my bro , he was thinking about one for his buggy.
Thanks for sharing.
SL
 
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the supercharger issue has been buried.

I wouldn't say buried. You can't just strap a SC to a single engine, do a small amount of testing without using any actual measuring equipment, and call the concept busted. All a SC is doing is increasing the volume of fuel air mixture inside the crankcase, essentially the same thing that increasing crank timing does. This means that the engine's volumetric efficiency will be higher. With the right plug/pipe/head shims/tuning setup, a SC could potentially boost performance. Unfortunately this small test does not even scratch the surface of what conclusive would be.
 
I wouldn't say buried. You can't just strap a SC to a single engine, do a small amount of testing without using any actual measuring equipment, and call the concept busted. All a SC is doing is increasing the volume of fuel air mixture inside the crankcase, essentially the same thing that increasing crank timing does. This means that the engine's volumetric efficiency will be higher. With the right plug/pipe/head shims/tuning setup, a SC could potentially boost performance. Unfortunately this small test does not even scratch the surface of what conclusive would be.

oooh god here we go .. How come someones physical testing isn't good enough? I Don't give a 💩 about actual measuring equipment
If you have a better way of doing this .. using actual measuring equipment post up :shocked:
 
If I had the money and time to do a proper test I would. Until someone who meets those credentials shows up, everything aside from the very limited proof offered by this thread is pure speculation. The RB supercharger doesn't work well on a Force 26 using one pipe/plug/head shim combo. That's all that can really be taken from this. I'm not an engineer and I don't pretend to have the knowledge of one, but I'm confident that a SC can be made to work effectively on a 2 stroke nitro engine, and until someone does a thorough test, I will not be convinced otherwise.
 
I wouldn't say buried. You can't just strap a SC to a single engine, do a small amount of testing without using any actual measuring equipment, and call the concept busted. All a SC is doing is increasing the volume of fuel air mixture inside the crankcase, essentially the same thing that increasing crank timing does. This means that the engine's volumetric efficiency will be higher. With the right plug/pipe/head shims/tuning setup, a SC could potentially boost performance. Unfortunately this small test does not even scratch the surface of what conclusive would be.

Ok, I encourage you to look at a RC engine side cut. Realize that the exhaust port is on the same level as the intake. Whatever increased air you pump into the chamber will be pushed out with the fuel. Unlike a diesel, there is no way to retain the mixture. The echo or plugging wave does not have a chance to keep the fuel in the chamber.

Then, I would like for you to buy a SC. Better yet, gimme your address and I will send you this one. When you see the fuel reverse from the HSN valve over the excess air intake then you will understand.

Superchargers work in diesels over design. They cannot work in hobby grade over design. I do not have to hook this up to any test equipment to prove that. It is visible to the eye when you try to start it, see the engine over heating over the lean condition, and see the fuel gushing out of the pipe.

Additional HP and speed is what nitro engines need to compete with BL motors right now. If SC's worked then every company would be on them like white on rice.

Have a happy thanksgiving my friend! I realize that there is more than one side but I encourage you to post your findings so that we can compare. Mine are posted above. You see, I got tired of people saying that they sucked without trying them. So, I tried it. I gave it a fair shot and in my findings and engine knowledge it simply does not work.

To the engine specific comment.... so a supercharge depends on how effective it is based upon engine? That is really poor marketing if it works on one or two engines and that is it. I tried this on a Jp2, JP3, and a JP4. I mixed around with several factors. But, again, we are glossing over the fact that HOBBY GRADE ENGINES have a exhaust on the same level as the intake. They can only take so much in. Any excess will dump out of the pipe or push the fuel into the tank.

I will not waste another engine on this test and my findings are universal to alot of people. Would you like to try this on one of your engines? Hobby grade motors are universal. They are also not diesel engines. Can you over the design of ALL nitro grade hobby engines with the exhaust porting psycho?
 
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Yes the intake and boost ports do close before the exhaust port, but you must realize that these engines do not run at 100% volumetric efficiency at any point in the RPM range. If you increase the crankcase pressure using forced induction, you will boost volumetric efficiency, as well as the losses through the exhaust port. With increased backpressure from the pipe, you could make both of these effects work for you. COULD is the key here, with the proper setup and a better designed SC.

There is a large flaw in the RB design, and that is the fact that it will continue to build pressure in front of it when the crank has sealed off the case. This pressure will push the fuel back out of the carb body and into the line, and is probably responsible for most of your issues. However this proves only that the RB SC is a turd, not that the concept of performance boosting forced induction on a valveless 2 stroke is impossible.

I think the engine manufacturers are not pursuing the concept of SCs because much greater performance gains can be obtained through improving port timing. The current line of engines available for a Savage are already nearing the line of too powerful for the truck's components to handle, and many of the current engines are too powerful for most race tracks, so there is no point doubling the cost of an engine just to gain a few more oz-in of torque.
 
I think that for the most part we agree. There is alot of personal visual and experienced experience to prove that the RB design is flawed and that it is a waste of $150. Which, at the end of the day, is what this thread is about =)

I still think that for a SC to be successful then it will involve a custom engine with custom pipe for it. There is a market for it, but the RB solution that has been on the market for 5 years now, is not it.

I get 200 comments and questions on YT a day plus questions on my forum and PM box. To be able to say "this is something that you should not pursue" or "if you pursue this then to do it with eyes open" is the big thing for me.

Again, alot of people will say bad things about whatever over the net. I at least try it out with an open mind.

My offer to send you the SC to hook up to your engine is still open. Would you trust your engine to it? Then you can post your own personal experiences on how the unit works on your engine and pipe setup?
 
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This is just my 2 cents on the SC thing. Had one a few years ago. Tuning was a pain. 2 things you didn't do was try the air restrictor that comes with it or the bleed vent. you should have had a nipple and a plastic T to put on the pressure line. I did all kinds of little trials with my Sure Fire .32. When I finally and it took a long time to find it worked with a solid tune and temps were in the 260F range. Will I run them again. NO it was a fad and I can say been there done that. Did the NO2 also. Had a lot of fun with that.




 
My offer to send you the SC to hook up to your engine is still open. Would you trust your engine to it? Then you can post your own personal experiences on how the unit works on your engine and pipe setup?

Well there ya go Evan.. Lets see it bro
 
this review is intelligent and informative. i now realize how many of your videos ive already seen on youtube. Totally makes sense; first warning i remember reading in my owner's manual was not to run the mill too lean because it will cause damage...
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Great thread squirrel, this info will surely be useful to many.
 
the biggest flaw with this supercharger is the placement of the carb and supercharger. if the carb was before the sc then it would actually improve performance and hold a good tune . the preasure wave or plugging wave would be increased with the larger explosion in the engine. squirel you should see if you can mod it to put the carb before the sc in the intake and see how that performs id bet you would see an improvment . just my .02
 

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