Metallic "dust" on chassis under CB gear and Spur

[GAJ]

is it normal to get a bit of metallic residue under the CB gear after a run? I have one RC with a closed CB with the black shoes, and a Savage XL with an open CB with aluminum shoes.

thanks

 

[Jam Racing 1]

A Bit is normal, if there is a lot then something bears investigation as to why, either a dry bearing failing or maybe from alloy shoes, either way I would check as to what and why it is there...

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

Gaj...was the dust dry or wet? (ie did it have oil or grease mixed in with it?). Please take a look at the clutch bell as I've noticed it is kind of a tight fit. I noticed my plate that sits below the engine mount is warped and consequently my clutch bell is very close to the brake calipers. If you have a chance to send pictures of the clutch bells and shoes I for one would like to see it, simply so I know what to look out for. I did have a similar issue (but mine was 'oily flakes'). It turned out the exhaust pipe was not fully sealed at its port and oil was coming through and making it's way to that area. Very odd.

 

[GAJ]

I would say it is dry. On the Savage, my thought is that it was brake dust from the aluminum shoes, and hoping I was not chewing up the CB gear.

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

I'm unsure of the aluminum clutches, but could the shoes be rubbing up against the flywheel. I imagine some alum shoes would come with spacers to put on the flywheel pins. Did yours come with them? if you did not shim take a look at the flywheel to see if that is where it's from (gently pry a shoe open).

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

Gaj, I went to my neighbor's track today, and on the way I mentioned some posts on here, specifically the metallic dust. I figured I'd follow up with you, I am confident he knows of what he speaks for the simple fact I've seen his vehicles in action and they are the cats meow.
He mentioned that it's most likely in your

and should check it as there really is no no brake dust from your

so check the outside of your

and ensure it can't possibly rub up against something, and then the inside for 'rings' anywhere. If your

is not shimmed properly, then the

can rub against the top of the

.
You noted you were running a vented

with your

...I have one of those as well. If you haven't yet, compare it with the

as you will see the covered one is longer so if you left the shim the same perhaps it touched? He said he uses micro-torch to check for grease in his bells as I'm informed when it dries it is all but impossible to fully removed. When you heat it up you can see it. I haven't tried that yet,.but regardless I have no doubt he knows what he's doing as I've had the fortune seeing his sons vehicles run and they are unlike anything I've ever seen so I believe him when he states it should not be happening.
Regardless I wanted to pass this along in the event it helps. Please let us all know what you find. Have a great day

 

[GAJ]

Thank for the update, I will take a look when I get a chance.

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

No problem. I'm fortunate in that I can tap in to his expertise so definitely will pass along anything that might help. Consider those aluminum shoes and shimming them on the flywheel if you have not. I am still utilizing the stock clutch, I'm unsure the purpose of aluminum other than they are lighter than plastic so preferred in certain conditions?

 

[Jam Racing 1]

No problem. I'm fortunate in that I can tap in to his expertise so definitely will pass along anything that might help. Consider those aluminum shoes and shimming them on the flywheel if you have not. I am still utilizing the stock clutch, I'm unsure the purpose of aluminum other than they are lighter than plastic so preferred in certain conditions?

the reason for alloy clutch shoes is they seem to grab the bell better and last about 2 to 3 times longer than any of the others out there at least in my vehicles...

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

First, thank you for providing your thoughts on this. I can certainly see how aluminum would provide more 'bite' against a steel surface when compared to plastic/carbon material. If I am understanding this, ideally you want the shoes to 'clamp' at the appropriate time..which is why they offer various materials, weights, and spring tensions?? In other words, if one were to use a shoe that engages later in the RPM range (I assume due to the centrifugal force a lighter shoe such as aluminum engages at a higher RPM). It seems, however, that this type of shoe/bell engagement is best suited when traction is at its highest--i.e. high bite surfaces such as pavement, hard-pack, etc, else you risk simply spinning your wheels (literally) when traction is low and RPM is high?

As for longevity of the shoes, my understanding is it's the opposite. Plastic lasts much longer than aluminum. I recently watched an interesting video where someone went as far to conduct a series of tests (on a Savage believe it or not) between the two materials. I believe he was able to get just under two gallons with aluminum while the stock shoes were "still like new" after 3x as many gallons. He also noted this was consistent with other vehicles. I'll see if I can find it and post it. Perhaps I am missing some of the variables, so want to be sure I understand what you are saying, and that is with a Savage, aluminum shoes last "2 to 3 times longer than any others out there?"

I also have spoken with racers at a track near us who run a proprietary material called 'Komposite' which claims to last much longer than aluminum but not as long as plastic. So once again, please do not take offense with me questioning what you write, it's simply that I've seen, read, and heard the opposite. I imagine the best way to find out is to try it myself (which I intend to), but it does leave me scratching my head when I read explicit discrepancies like this. As noted I am not trying to start a huge debate, but instead responding to what you wrote for the mere fact it is the opposite of what others have told me (and from what I've witnessed). Are you saying they are incorrect or am I completely missing something? Thank you.

 

[Jam Racing 1]

🙄 yes some materials will last longer I suppose, Buku claims their clutch shoes last many gallons of fuel also, I prefer alloy shoes , (which I service frequently) to the composite shoes out there because they seem to last a good long while and give good vehicle performance ( if maintained properly)...

Buku offers a setup which mixes materials and for some they seem to be long lasting and grab the bell, well I do not know for sure because I have never used them as I have no real need.... one of the members here bought a Buku and had a lot of trouble getting his to work as advertised...

Most alloy shoes come with springs to control engagement and based on engine rpm this engagement can be adjusted by using lighter or heavier springs, Buku uses an adjustable set you can adjust the grab from outside the bell thru the flywheel , but for the cost (80 bux) and my bashing needs I stick with the cheaper alternative and just maintain it well....
I do not race my vehicles in competition so I get by on the cheaper stuff for the most part, but if I were to be racing in competition I would certainly use the best stuff I could get, (this is why there are so many choices)....

So if you decide to use something that works well for you feel free to make a thread detailing your experiences...


All this has little to do with the original post asking what that shiney materials may be under his clutch bell and flywheel which I hope he finds out and fixes before something more costly fails....

 

[Newbie Savage Owner]

🙄 yes some materials will last longer I suppose,

Fantastic. Thanks so much...I think I get it now. You see, I thought you had written they last about 2-3x longer then anything out there (while it seems other materials instead are the longer lasting). I apologize for any confusion. Wait, what?

Buku claims their clutch shoes last many gallons of fuel also, I prefer alloy shoes , (which I service frequently) to the composite shoes out there because they seem to last a good long while and give good vehicle performance ( if maintained properly)...

Thanks for the elaboration. How long do you typically get from an aluminum shoe (and is it soft, hard, or medium that you run)? Regarding maintenance what is involved? You note maintenance 3 times in this post, so its obviously important to you.

Aside from cleaning deglazing the inside of the bell, checking the parts (bearings, collet, flywheel pins, springs, etc what is there to do the shoe other than clean it remove any edges due to the mushroom effect?, and sand off and edges due to the mushroom effect (galling of the edges). It seems the best maintenance is not use it as you cannot reduce wear so much as opposed with ensuring they progressively provide the proper torque throughout the RPM range through the entire life of the shoe? This is merely an assumption though.

I do not race my vehicles in competition so I get by on the cheaper stuff for the most part, but if I were to be racing in competition I would certainly use the best stuff I could get, (this is why there are so many choices)....

Once again, I would think the 'choices' for clutch setup are needed just as much as bashing than in racing due to the fact the surfaces and terrain are so vastly different from one bashing spot to the next (vs one track to the next). This of course is simply an opinion.

All this has little to do with the original post asking what that shiney materials may be under his clutch bell and flywheel which I hope he finds out and fixes before something more costly fails....

Unless the result is from the alloy shoes as you suggested earlier in the thread, I agree the shoe material is of little importance here (unless it's rubbing against the flywheel, etc. etc)

So if you decide to use something that works well for you feel free to make a thread detailing your experiences...

You know; I think I'll do that. Tomorrow our track hobby store is open so will buy some non-plastic shoes. Probably the Komposites or some kind of alloy.

Finally, I should apologize as I imagine some of my questions could have been addressed in a previous post (and I imagine you have answered the same questions 4-5 times by now). Consequently I will endeavor to find where my question was previously addressed (if at all). If It requires elaboration I will focus soley in that area, once again saving you from answering the same questions over and over again. This way I can seek elaboration as needed on a specific area that might not have been covered. So basically trying to do my homework first.
Tomorrow I will detail what I experience with my new set of clutch shoes (per your suggestion)

 

[GAJ]

UPDATE...

Pulled off the CB, Two of the shoes were riding high on the posts, rubbing on the CB. Two of the clutch springs were on top of the nut, not in the groove. Shoes are a bit short now!!

Question.. The seals have come off the bearings, all of them, bearings roll fine, anyone seen this before?

 

[Jay F.]

The seals came off on mine. The lhs has the bear8ngs pretty cheap. For about 4 bucks i can replace them. Easier just to ditch the old ones and not have to worry