k4.6 lean at stock settings!

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Montréal (South Shore), Québec, Canada
Ok, I have been trying to tune my Savage the last 2-3 times I had the occasion to run it. The thing is, it always managed to overheat very quickly (the engine was lean, I could hear it), with the HSN very rich.

This time was no exception, I left the engine at stock settings (all needles flush) and ran the Savage for a minute or two before checking the temp. After a very short while, the temps were in the 250-260-270 fahrenheit range, and the engine sounded very lean. I shut it down, put it to BDC and let it cool for a while.

I tried to remove my Axial fuel filter because I noticed there was air bubbles in the fuel line, thinking this could be the cause of my problem. It seemed to help a bit (it ran a bit more consistently) but the engine still overheats like crazy after a couple of minutes.

I don't think I always had this problem, the engine seemed to run OK before and I checked temps during break-in and they were OK too.

When I got my kit I removed the engine back plate to add some high temp gasket maker, as well as the needles to add some green slime on the seals, based on the video tutorials by Squirrel which you may have seen. I'm pretty sure I did a good job so I don't see where there could be air leaks of any kind.

This is driving me crazy, could anyone help?

Conditions:
Glow plug: Cold R5 (stock)
Outside temp: about 15-20 degrees Celcius / 59-68 Fahrenheit, dry
Pressure: Sea level
 
on the k block(and axials) you will see a screw head below the HSN. This is commonly referred to as the mid needle (venturi). Check to make sure that needle is also flush with the carb body, then take some rtv and seal over it. Yhat needle likes to walk and leak air which will give you fits trying to tune.
 
AllanQ said:
on the k block(and axials) you will see a screw head below the HSN. This is commonly referred to as the mid needle (venturi). Check to make sure that needle is also flush with the carb body, then take some rtv and seal over it. Yhat needle likes to walk and leak air which will give you fits trying to tune.
Click to expand...

Yeah the mid needle is also flush with the casing, and it received the same green slime treatment as the other two needles. It also didn't seem to move.

One thing though, is that out of the bag I recall this needle was not exactly flush with the body, more a couple of turns in (about 1 mm lower than the body I think). Could this be the problem? How does the middle speed needle work exactly? There isn't much info on this one, could that cause my problem?
 
That is a good call Allan. My Axial had the same problem, plus it was pulling air from around the carb. Soulja and I worked on it and the engine now screams and stays at around 200 degrees.
 
ryugaiden05 said:
That is a good call Allan. My Axial had the same problem, plus it was pulling air from around the carb. Soulja and I worked on it and the engine now screams and stays at around 200 degrees.
Click to expand...

Now that you're talking about it, I did not seal around the carb, I'll try that!

Allan, I'm not sure I understand what you mean; you're suggesting to use sealant outside the mid needle, or inside on the seals/threads themselves like I did with the green slime? Is green slime sufficient or do some people use a "tougher" sealant?
 
I acutally put a little bit of loc-tite on the threads of mine. Seems to hold it in place. I just make sure to keep check on it after every few runs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm gonna try do fix this issue this weekend (as soon as I get some free time!) and will report on if it worked and if yes what I did to fix it.

If anyone has some other tips/experiences regarding sealing please post them so I get to do those too when I'll work on that this weekend! Thanks.
 
Ok, here's an update:

I removed my engine from the Savy and while cleaning it I saw that the bearing under the flywheel was not flat. I removed the clutch and flywheel and found out that the rubber seal of the bearing in the engine block was partly dislodged. It looks like dirt may have entered in the bearing, it was quite dirty when I cleaned it. I snapped the rubber ring back in place and the bearing seems to work OK (rotating the shaft using the pullstarter), but I don't know.

Could that be the air leak source? Should I get a new/better bearing? (in this case, links would be nice; for Canada if possible)

If yes I think I'm gonna wait for the part to arrive then I'll crack the engine open and re-seal everything. What do you think?

Naturally, any sealing tips are still welcome. Thanks!
 
wildchild27 said:
ya a bearing would cause it to leak air and if it was lettin dirt in that could cause even more problems.
Click to expand...

On road mills don't even have this seal. This is not a air leak. a leak form the front of the mill is do to mill damage and not a leaking bearing... that is a mith. No bearing seals out air.
 
Bankrupter said:
On road mills don't even have this seal. This is not a air leak. a leak form the front of the mill is do to mill damage and not a leaking bearing... that is a mith. No bearing seals out air.
Click to expand...

Oh.. I guess that I could just remove it, clean it and put it back in then? What do you think? I don't think much dirt could have entered in it, if at all. The rubber seal didn't seem damaged and after snapping it back in place the bearing looked like new. I wonder if it will come out easier now.. I wouldn't want that to happen all the time..!

I guess a new bearing wouldn't be bad, considering they don't cost much. I'm looking into this, but I'm having a hard time finding the dimensions of the bearing:

1- Anyone got those?
2- I'd also like to know if I need a "special" kind of bearing for this specific application.
 
no none of that is good for the xss.. that is a ofna case ... only good for the F4.6 you have a K 4.6 but I tried ... Ill look up the K's info for you.
 
Another update:

I have received my front bearing and disassembled my K4.6. I noticed two things. The first I think is my problem:

airleak3.jpg


What do you think? :lmao:

Some other probable air leak areas I've identified are the carb retainer (I put some Permatex High Temp Gasket Maker in there) and this not-so-good-looking o-ring:

airleak1.jpg

airleak2.jpg


Another thing I wondered is I've seen in the manual there is supposedly an o-ring on the HSN but there it's nowhere to be found:

airleak4.jpg


Any comments on this?
 
Yep new oring kit is needed.

The o-ring for the HSN is under that plastic screw cap. You push the needle out of the top of the cap.
 
frddyj said:
yea, you need a o-ring kit bro.

you said you got that mill brand new Form?
Click to expand...

Yep, well it was included with the X SS kit.

AllanQ said:
Yep new oring kit is needed.

The o-ring for the HSN is under that plastic screw cap. You push the needle out of the top of the cap.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification Allan, this is not exactly evident from the diagrams.

A new o-ring set it will be.
 
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