Freezebyte
Member
- Messages
- 34
- Location
- Missoula, Montana
I just got off the phone with HPI customer support after emailing them about the following email:
Dear HPI
The following is a copy of an email sent to SMC batteries in regards to a VERY large issue with peoples Flux's MMM ESC's dying as result of poor quality LiPo batteries. We have Castle Creations stating that their MMM ESC product works best on 25C or above rated batteries which can provide at least 120 continuous amps to prevent damage to the MMM from power flucuations and spikes. Castle Creations has stated that your suggesting that the Flux can be powered via NiMH also contradicts completely with what the Castle president has stated in the following threads.
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20951
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18981
Your company has obligations to give us consumers that purchase YOUR PRODUCTS the BEST and MOST ACCURATE information possible for us to run our products that will give them long life and reliability. We ask that you provide publicly announced and provided UP TO DATE details in regards to what BOTH YOU AND CASTLE CREATIONS agree upon on which batteries and specific battery ratings will work best win the Savage Flux RC trucks and the equipment that powers them.
Thank your your time.
Sincerely,
************
Concerned HPI Savage Flux owner
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8821191/tm.htm
Within 2 minutes I had a call on my cell phone and I spoke with HPI rep named "Mike" at extenstion 168. Me and him had a VERY interesting and enlighting conversation. I will relate as much accurate wording as I am able to recall about our conversation. I feel obligated to share this inforation not only for Savage Flux owners, but other RC people alike on forums. Mike has stated he will back up this following conversation and statements in regards to HPI and its commitment to its customers and products, so feel free to contact him if you have questions or don't believe the following conversation.
Cell Phone rings from unknown out of state area code, so I decide to answer, unsure what to think
Hello?
"Yes, hello, Am I speaking with Bryce?"
"This is him"
"Hello Bryce this is Mike from HPI and I just read your email to us and I'm wanting to speak with you further in regards to this issue and get some clarification"
"Hello Mike, yes I have some serious concerns in regards to the information both you and Castle Creation have stated in regards to battery specifications to run your product. ALOT of people have been having MMM ESC fried as a result of poor LiPo's. You have stated on page 7 of your Savage Flux manual that you RECOMMEND 25C rated LiPo batteries and Castle has stated the same thing. Is this true?"
"Yes, we recommend no lower then 25C rated LiPo's in order for the Flux ESC and motor to run efficently and reliably as possible. In regards to SMC batteries, they are some of the top rated batteries we've ever run. I personally know Brian at SMC and they make some of the best products and our testing vouches for that. I actually ran the same type of batteries that you do at the NC championships last week and they were awesome batteries. I have also tried their 9000mAh rated LiPo's and they also were excellent"
"Castle Creations president has stated on the RC-Monster.com forums they also recommend higher quality LiPo's to prevent damage to their MMM ESC as lower quality and rated LiPo's can induce power spikes that can easily damage or fry the ESC as MANY people are attesting too. Would that be accurate as well?"
"Yes, very much so however I will point out that HPI has never turned down a burnt or damaged ESC claim before and will not do so. We cannot specifically ask or order or clients to give us specific information into when, why, how of their product usage as thats simply bad customer service and we value our customers higher then to grill on them on such specific details. Castle is also the same way"
"Well thats very good to hear. This is my first brushless and LiPo setup and so far am very happy with it"
"I'm very glad to hear that, I enjoy mine as well"
"But then it almost seems like mis information as you guys also state that you can run the Savage Flux via NiMH batteries. Castles president has stated they NiMH just simply don't have the discharge outpout to reliably run their equipment and don't' recommend it but you guys state in the manual that you can. Can you elaborate?"
"Certainly. We've done extensive testing with the Savage flux and Castles MMM ESC and though YOU CAN power the MMM via NiMH, IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. NiMH of course do not have as high or reliable discharge current as LiPo's, so you are risking a possible failure of the ESC as a result but again however, we will not turn down a claim as a result of using NiMH on our product"
"I see, but it would seem somewhat counter intuitive for you to make recommendations that may result in higher product failures on both you and Castle creations end?"
"Again, you can run our Savage Flux with NiMH batteries, we just don't recommend it for the following reasons that it does increase your chances of damaging the ESC and once again, we will back up our claims and will process any RMA'ed ESC as a result of running NiMH, its simply our way of supporting our customers"
"Well thats excellent to hear, especially after having a Traxxas Revo two years ago, which I won't even get into"
*Mike laughs into phone*
"That brings me to my next concern as well as ALOT of other Flux owners. You state in your manual that you recommend installing the 25T pinion on the Flux while using 6S LiPo's. This has been brought up in topics about people frying their ESC's as a result of the increased power draw and stress on the system and Castle Creations president has also stated that this is not recommened for their products. Whats the deal?"
"To make sure we do not give false advertisment, which is that our Savage Flux can run up to 62MPH out of the box, which it can, we PROVIDE the necassary gear, in this case the 25T pinion for us to make and back up the claim. However, you and Castles president is correct, it is very stressful on the system and it borders on redline as far as danger and stressing the components of the Flux.
"I noticed that below those street claims you state to run 6S LiPo and run your street tires to reach those speeds"
"Correct. It also is the same recommendation for our new Tork 2650kv motor is designed purely for TOP SPEED. It it designed to be basically run in straight lines"
"So you are stating that the 2650kv motor would not be an idea choice for all around bashing?"
"Correct, its for impressing and speed runs, nothing more and again, it will push LiPo and the ESC to its limits, therebye requiring top quality LiPo's to order to run saftely"
"So what gearing ratio would you recommend then if someone like me whos thining about trying 6S and not having to worry about frying my ESC or Lipos?"
"I would go no higher then 22T pinion"
"So running the stock 20T pinion would be just fine?"
"Yes, you will not reach the top advertised speed but you will reduce the strain on the ESC, motor and LiPo' vs using the 25T pinion"
"Speaking of strain, there has been ALOT of issues in regards to people breaking the drivetrain on the Flux's"
"Are you speaking in regards to the top drive gear wear in the center diff?
"Uhh, well that also is an issue and i'm on my second one with grease and its still being filed away"
"We are aware of that and hence we have released the hardened steel version to help reduce this problem. Have you placed an order for one?
"No, everyone is on back order, I can't find one anywhere"
"Let me go ahead and put you in the que for back order one as I personally want to take care of my customers"
"Well thank you very much, that speaks volumes for your customer service and HPI"
"Most welcome"
"But other people are having many issues with the front and rear diffs breaking and failing under many different situations"
"The Savage Flux puts out ALOT of power and torque in an instant and no RC product capable of withstanding standing backflips, hard jackrabbit starts and brakes. We are aware of this issue and I though CANNOT state specifics, HPI will have a public announcement and solution to this problem in the coming month. The standing backflips though impressive, amount to most of the damaged diffs claims we have seen, but we will honor and replace them"
"Really? So you are aware of the amount of diffs problems with the Fluxs?
"Yes and again, we will not turn down any RMA'ed differentials and again, I cannot state specifics on what the announcement will be in regards too but rest assured, we have an answer for our customers"
"Awesome to hear Mike. That says alot for your guys reputation in regards to customer service and support. This is my first HPI product and other then these few issues, I love the **** out of it, its been so enjoyable in comparison to nitro"
Dear HPI
The following is a copy of an email sent to SMC batteries in regards to a VERY large issue with peoples Flux's MMM ESC's dying as result of poor quality LiPo batteries. We have Castle Creations stating that their MMM ESC product works best on 25C or above rated batteries which can provide at least 120 continuous amps to prevent damage to the MMM from power flucuations and spikes. Castle Creations has stated that your suggesting that the Flux can be powered via NiMH also contradicts completely with what the Castle president has stated in the following threads.
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20951
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18981
Your company has obligations to give us consumers that purchase YOUR PRODUCTS the BEST and MOST ACCURATE information possible for us to run our products that will give them long life and reliability. We ask that you provide publicly announced and provided UP TO DATE details in regards to what BOTH YOU AND CASTLE CREATIONS agree upon on which batteries and specific battery ratings will work best win the Savage Flux RC trucks and the equipment that powers them.
Thank your your time.
Sincerely,
************
Concerned HPI Savage Flux owner
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8821191/tm.htm
Within 2 minutes I had a call on my cell phone and I spoke with HPI rep named "Mike" at extenstion 168. Me and him had a VERY interesting and enlighting conversation. I will relate as much accurate wording as I am able to recall about our conversation. I feel obligated to share this inforation not only for Savage Flux owners, but other RC people alike on forums. Mike has stated he will back up this following conversation and statements in regards to HPI and its commitment to its customers and products, so feel free to contact him if you have questions or don't believe the following conversation.
Cell Phone rings from unknown out of state area code, so I decide to answer, unsure what to think
Hello?
"Yes, hello, Am I speaking with Bryce?"
"This is him"
"Hello Bryce this is Mike from HPI and I just read your email to us and I'm wanting to speak with you further in regards to this issue and get some clarification"
"Hello Mike, yes I have some serious concerns in regards to the information both you and Castle Creation have stated in regards to battery specifications to run your product. ALOT of people have been having MMM ESC fried as a result of poor LiPo's. You have stated on page 7 of your Savage Flux manual that you RECOMMEND 25C rated LiPo batteries and Castle has stated the same thing. Is this true?"
"Yes, we recommend no lower then 25C rated LiPo's in order for the Flux ESC and motor to run efficently and reliably as possible. In regards to SMC batteries, they are some of the top rated batteries we've ever run. I personally know Brian at SMC and they make some of the best products and our testing vouches for that. I actually ran the same type of batteries that you do at the NC championships last week and they were awesome batteries. I have also tried their 9000mAh rated LiPo's and they also were excellent"
"Castle Creations president has stated on the RC-Monster.com forums they also recommend higher quality LiPo's to prevent damage to their MMM ESC as lower quality and rated LiPo's can induce power spikes that can easily damage or fry the ESC as MANY people are attesting too. Would that be accurate as well?"
"Yes, very much so however I will point out that HPI has never turned down a burnt or damaged ESC claim before and will not do so. We cannot specifically ask or order or clients to give us specific information into when, why, how of their product usage as thats simply bad customer service and we value our customers higher then to grill on them on such specific details. Castle is also the same way"
"Well thats very good to hear. This is my first brushless and LiPo setup and so far am very happy with it"
"I'm very glad to hear that, I enjoy mine as well"
"But then it almost seems like mis information as you guys also state that you can run the Savage Flux via NiMH batteries. Castles president has stated they NiMH just simply don't have the discharge outpout to reliably run their equipment and don't' recommend it but you guys state in the manual that you can. Can you elaborate?"
"Certainly. We've done extensive testing with the Savage flux and Castles MMM ESC and though YOU CAN power the MMM via NiMH, IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. NiMH of course do not have as high or reliable discharge current as LiPo's, so you are risking a possible failure of the ESC as a result but again however, we will not turn down a claim as a result of using NiMH on our product"
"I see, but it would seem somewhat counter intuitive for you to make recommendations that may result in higher product failures on both you and Castle creations end?"
"Again, you can run our Savage Flux with NiMH batteries, we just don't recommend it for the following reasons that it does increase your chances of damaging the ESC and once again, we will back up our claims and will process any RMA'ed ESC as a result of running NiMH, its simply our way of supporting our customers"
"Well thats excellent to hear, especially after having a Traxxas Revo two years ago, which I won't even get into"
*Mike laughs into phone*
"That brings me to my next concern as well as ALOT of other Flux owners. You state in your manual that you recommend installing the 25T pinion on the Flux while using 6S LiPo's. This has been brought up in topics about people frying their ESC's as a result of the increased power draw and stress on the system and Castle Creations president has also stated that this is not recommened for their products. Whats the deal?"
"To make sure we do not give false advertisment, which is that our Savage Flux can run up to 62MPH out of the box, which it can, we PROVIDE the necassary gear, in this case the 25T pinion for us to make and back up the claim. However, you and Castles president is correct, it is very stressful on the system and it borders on redline as far as danger and stressing the components of the Flux.
"I noticed that below those street claims you state to run 6S LiPo and run your street tires to reach those speeds"
"Correct. It also is the same recommendation for our new Tork 2650kv motor is designed purely for TOP SPEED. It it designed to be basically run in straight lines"
"So you are stating that the 2650kv motor would not be an idea choice for all around bashing?"
"Correct, its for impressing and speed runs, nothing more and again, it will push LiPo and the ESC to its limits, therebye requiring top quality LiPo's to order to run saftely"
"So what gearing ratio would you recommend then if someone like me whos thining about trying 6S and not having to worry about frying my ESC or Lipos?"
"I would go no higher then 22T pinion"
"So running the stock 20T pinion would be just fine?"
"Yes, you will not reach the top advertised speed but you will reduce the strain on the ESC, motor and LiPo' vs using the 25T pinion"
"Speaking of strain, there has been ALOT of issues in regards to people breaking the drivetrain on the Flux's"
"Are you speaking in regards to the top drive gear wear in the center diff?
"Uhh, well that also is an issue and i'm on my second one with grease and its still being filed away"
"We are aware of that and hence we have released the hardened steel version to help reduce this problem. Have you placed an order for one?
"No, everyone is on back order, I can't find one anywhere"
"Let me go ahead and put you in the que for back order one as I personally want to take care of my customers"
"Well thank you very much, that speaks volumes for your customer service and HPI"
"Most welcome"
"But other people are having many issues with the front and rear diffs breaking and failing under many different situations"
"The Savage Flux puts out ALOT of power and torque in an instant and no RC product capable of withstanding standing backflips, hard jackrabbit starts and brakes. We are aware of this issue and I though CANNOT state specifics, HPI will have a public announcement and solution to this problem in the coming month. The standing backflips though impressive, amount to most of the damaged diffs claims we have seen, but we will honor and replace them"
"Really? So you are aware of the amount of diffs problems with the Fluxs?
"Yes and again, we will not turn down any RMA'ed differentials and again, I cannot state specifics on what the announcement will be in regards too but rest assured, we have an answer for our customers"
"Awesome to hear Mike. That says alot for your guys reputation in regards to customer service and support. This is my first HPI product and other then these few issues, I love the **** out of it, its been so enjoyable in comparison to nitro"