Break in suspension set up?

[fallenangels]

Ok...as I am sure you guys know I am no racer, this is my second nitro RC, and the last one was a traxxas touring car that ran great out of the box with only minor adjustments.
I have just finished my second tank of the break in proceedure. I haven't gotten above 1/2 throttle, but I am noticing some issues with the suspension that I will have to address. I was hoping that you guys could give some advise. I will post pics of the current set up and you can help me go from there.
What I am experiencing is a big tendancy to wheelie...lol...seems the front end is realy light, and the new era wheelie bars do little to help the issue, to me it seems more like a skid plate as it is tucked in so tight to the factory bumper...it rarely seems to stop a wheelie, but the truck is new to me so it could be just that I'm not used to the power yet. I would like to give the front end alot more traction. Granted I should tell you that I was driving on a mix of grass and concrete, but the suspension issues seemed the same on both surfaces.
The other problem is that durring a hard turn I am experiencing a complete lift of one of the rear inside wheels and the wheels seem to be going almost to the sidewalls of the tires durring most any turn at even low speeds.
Thother than the suspension issues the truck is running great, I love it so far and haven't even gotten to shift into second yet. I have rolled it 2-3 times, so like I thought I will be adding a complete crash cage soon. I am wondering if sway bars will help with some of the problems that I am experiencing or if I should play with the set up of the supension first?

 

[fallenangels]

I am curious if the front and rear of the truck should be set up differently to compensate for the different weight front to back. Is it like the suspension set up of a real car, do you guys ever wheigh the individual wheels to see how the weight is distributed? I am considering lowwering it some to help with traction, but I kinda like the current height. Pics of current set up:

 

[Pope]

What is the ride height when it sets on the ground? To stop some of the issues you are having you want to mod the shocks to have it sit with arms level and alow for about 1/4" of droop.

 

[fallenangels]

I think that she is sitting high with the arms at about 45% or a lil less from the ground. Should I start by moving the shocks out ward on the bottom and inward on the top to achieve the necessary drop. I am assuming that I will have to adjust more than the shocks to get the wheels to sit level on the ground.

 

[maximusraylius]

Like the pope said do the shock mod level the arms out. And as for the sidewall roll that's just stock tires being stock tires. Junk imo. I run all my trucks with the top of shocks all the way in closest to the body mounts. That helps with roll over. And wheelies that's savages for you on Hess and concrete that a good traction source. Maybe yet making the springs softer by putting the spring adjustment closer to the tops of the shocks so it absorbs some of the trucks power. Hope this helps.

 

[Pope]

It can be done. I have a ERCM modded picco .28 and my truck will not wheele or roll in a turn and I have tried.

 

[fallenangels]

What are you guys results with the wheelie bars...seems that the new era ones are built tough like a strong skid plate, but they don't do much to stop wheelies because of their tight location next to the rear bumper. It looks more like a good skid plate than a true wheelie bar, I would think that the plate is so tight that you could jump big air with it and never have to worry.
Also what is a good all around tire, I am planning on getting some street tires, but I also want a strong off road tire that won't give as much as the stocker, when I say it actualy rolls to the outside of the tire durring turns...I ment alot, enough to help promote the lifting of one of the rear wheels and assisting in flipping the truck a few times...and it should be noted that I was driving slow!

 

[maximusraylius]

The wheelie bars are so that I don't flip all the way over. Not to keep the front whheels down like. A dragster. the reason why they all are so close to the rear bumper is so you can jump still with out hitting them as easy. As for the tires your talking about sidewall roll. Stockers are way bad for that. Idk what kind of tire your looking for. I say maybe. The moabs might be a decent tire for dirt and road running but I never used them. They just look like a stret tire aswell as dirt to me. Go to towerhobbies.com. Look for tires there till you see one you like. All of I'm see better than stock I think. Good luck.

 

[fallenangels]

Ok...I took some static measurements and it is quite possible that the addition of the new Integy shocks and New Era lowwer arms may have changed the suspension set up a bit from stock.
My front end measurement was 3 7/8", while the rear was sagging at 2 7/8". That is a 1" bias to the rear, which would explain the lack of front end traction and constant wheelies with all the rear taking the majority of the weight.
I have since readujsted the suspension and have the set up at 2 1/2" at the front and 3" at the rear...time will tell if I am heading in the right direction.
Here is the measurements prior to adjustment:

 

[J1A1H]

you could just practise and hopefully your trigger finger will get used to controlling the wheeilies...
Try and get your suspension sitting level....
If after all these mods you still cant control the wheeliles.....

You can always looking into a custom mid mounted diff... lots of work but works effectively at transfering more power to the front wheels...

 

[Pope]

For tires I vote badlands. As far as the wheele bar I have never used on.

Let us know how close you get with the suspension change and we will start again from there.

 

[fallenangels]

I haven't yet run the new set up, but I am willing to bet it will be much better. The old one was heavily leaning to the rear, the new set up gives it a little more of a front end stance and I took all the load out of the front shocks and went down half way in the rear to help support the extra weight.

 

[wildchild27]

have you thought about a set of big bores? imho stay with the plastic a arms because 1 good crash and the bulkhead could be done. but have you also tried different shock oils?

 

[fallenangels]

well I think the current oil that I am running is 50 weight but from what others on the forum are doing it sounds like it should be closer to 25-30.
The more I read the more I am thinking of eventualy runni g big bores the only thing is I like the look of the dual shocks. I have noticed that the piggybacks hit the shocktower if you set them on the hole nearest the body post hole. So the limit of adjustment alone may cause me to go with another set up.
As for the bulkhead I will be eventually changing those to the NEW ERA stuff soon. I realy like working on my truck and getting to know how to tune things on it.
I think eventually I will convert the truck to the NEW ERA twin motor set up although I said I would only have one truck...lol

 

[J1A1H]

BB = less maintenance, less problems, stronger than stock twin shock setup... You can get alu big bores on ebay for $45! may be fake but no one has said anything bad about them yet... I may get a set too

 

[Pope]

I would strongly advise against a duel motor savage or anything for that matter.

 

[fallenangels]

First let me say that the suspension mods did a great deal of improvement on the savage. I tuned out the the constant wheeling, which was happening at almost all degrees of the throttle no matter how slow I applied it. Now I have to realy pin the throttle to get a wheelie, which is how I personaly like it.
The wheel lift has been almost completely tuned out also, it seems now that the only lifting I am getting is on the front end, but that is on a hard turn under throttle...so I am pleased with that, but time and further testing will tell if i can get her to be completely tractioned durring cornering manuvers.
I am also pleased to say that I have just used up my third tank of gas and although I didn't go over half throttle I did get to bash is some. A few jumps showed that she does realy well on landings, never flipped it, and the suspension was set just right.
What is wrong with the duel motor set ups???

 

[fallenangels]

I forgot to mention that I ran her on a mix of gravel with grey dirt and a sepperate field of grass. On the dirt gravel combo she spinned the rear under conering, drifting some, but held on good, the grass was all traction!

 

[Bankrupter]

Duel motors really do nothing for you but waste nitro. You could gear to the moon... diffs tranny spur and bell but you would be no faster then say a single modded picco .28 all they would add for you is toque. You are not happy about wheelies already so I would assume you don't want more....

Did you soften the oil weights ? I sped read this so I may have missed it. I did see you were talking about doing it ...

 

[fallenangels]

No I left the 50wheight Losi oil that came free with the shocks from my local hobby shop...I did remove all of the adjustment out of the front springs and left the rears at half way...here are some pics taken after the last run

 

[fallenangels]

I also moved the top of the shocks all the way outbound, which gave me a decent amount of drop that added up to a better suspension set up.