SOS hpi Savage X refuses to start !?!

[Joejoe7]

Today I tried to start up my Hpi Savage X for the first time in around 2 years. Unfortunately I was unsuccessful in starting my savage. I am fairly inexperienced with nitro rc cars so please bare with me. At first I put my roto start in the bearing and tried to turn the engine over, however the roto starter was almost stuck and would not even turn in the slightest. I tried removing my glow pug and using the roto start but I had the same result. The roto start was fully charged and functioning fine but when I stuck it in the engine the roto sarter just couldn't turn. I even tried using an electric drill with the starter shaft inserted and it would slowly turn but not fast enough for the engine to turn over. If you have any suggestions I will greatly appreciate them.
Thanks,
Joe

 

[X]

If you had been attempting to start it for a while it might be flooded. If that is the case remove the glow plug and turn the truck upside down, letting it sit there until all the nitro is out.

If this was the case from the start, then you may need to loosen the glow plug a little until it starts. This relieves a little bit of pressure so that the roto-start has an easier time turning over the engine. One the engine starts tighten down the glow plug and off you go.

 

[Joejoe7]

Today was the first time I attempted to start it. How exactly do I remove the glow plug and where is the glow plug located on the truck? Thankyou Joe

 

[X]

The glow plug is screwed into your engine's head. it looks something like this:

This is what you put your glow plug ignitor on when trying to start your engine.

 

[Jam Racing 1]

you said it sat for 2 years, that means the engine is gummed up and needs a complete tear down and cleaning and sealing... this is also why it does not turn over right.....

 

[Joejoe7]

How do I know for sure that this has to be done? How would I go about doing a complete tear down ?

 

[timatworksg]

Before attempting to do any work on the engine or truck I would suggest getting some good quality tools for the job. Removing the Glow Plug would require a Glow Plug wrench and thats a good one to spend some money on. Also a good set of hex and phillips drivers if you don't already have. When removing the Glow Plug, I normally turn the truck or engine (if I removed it) upside down and get out as much dirt and grass as possible from the area around the plg with a small brush or cotton tip. Then turn it over and remove the plug. This is so nothing falls into the hole and screws up your piston.
When replacing the Glow Plug, do it slowly and get a feel of it screwing in nicely. Sometimes you can get the plug in a little askew! Which can ruin the threads on the button head inside and when hot and expanded, your glow plug will fall off. Also tighten till you feel the restriction and thats good enough. A hair bit over is ok...just don't wrench it in! Strips the threads inside as well.

After 2yrs, it would be good to strip the engine apart and soak them in WD40 for a good clean up. Some parts maybe hard to remove but you should be able to undo the rotostart backplate, the one way bearing and starter shaft. The Flywheel and clutch maybe a challenge for you without the right tools. If you don't want to risk it removing the backplate and flushing the chamber with the piston inside with a cleaning agent or WD40 will work for a start. Clean what you can carefully without damaging the internals or scratching them. Let dry and reassemble with some RTV sealant where needed and threadlock the bolts.

This all may sound overwhelming for the newcomer...but rest assured not a difficult task to do. Loads of videos on Youtube on how to tear an engine down, sealing and how to remove certain parts. Even this forum has links and explanations as well as helping hands from the community.
Take time away from your savage for abit, read somemore, watch the videos, repeat if needed....it will be a good test on patience, but in the end...that engine WILL run again! Just don't rush with temptation.

Lastly...keep posting! We are watching and will chip in when we can!

 

[Jam Racing 1]

https://www.hpisavageforum.com/threads/sealing-an-engine.1275/

https://www.hpisavageforum.com/threads/sealing-an-engine.618/#post-8684

https://www.hpisavageforum.com/threads/how-to-seal-an-rc-engine-video.2093/#post-31327

Look at those threads and follow how to disassemble and clean and seal the engine... I can tell it is gummed up just by your description of how it turns over slowly, when an engine sits for an extended time the left over oils turn gummy and cause exactly what you described in your post

 

[Joejoe7]

Thank you everyone for your time and help. I greatly appreciate all your input and look forward to update you all on this process.

 

[timatworksg]

We will be here Joe! Remember, you may be afraid to break something....but it'll break you heart knowing you didn't try!

 

[Joejoe7]

Hey Y'all
I have good news and bad news. Lets start off with the good news first. I just recently pieced my Savage x 4.6 back together after cleaning and sealing the engine. She started up right away and I had some fun with it for a hour or so this morning. Now here comes the bad news... I got home from class earlier today and decided to give my savage another run. I filled her up with some fuel and go to start the engine and the Roto start wouldn't turn as if the engine was flooded. I tried again and I felt the engine start to turn than bamm! The roto start just started to spin as if it want connected to the engine. The engine felt like it had no compression. I took the engine apart all over again but I'm not quite what exactly went wrong. It sounds like the OWB but what do you guys think?

 

[Jam Racing 1]

ya is possible the 1 way let go. did you turn it by hand ? this will check the rod in case it broke... try cleaning the 1 way and see if that works to turn it over, clean it out good and put some grease inside the bearing and put back together......

 

[Joejoe7]

I turned it by hand and the wheels seemed to work fine. What would this look like if the rod actually broke?

 

[timatworksg]

Sounds like the One Way Bearing which is very easilly prone to getting flooded and slipping.
Remove the glow plug and rotate the flywheel...if the piston moves up and down...internally it's ok and it's likely the OWB.
Open the rear end and soak that OWB in WD40 and clean and dry it up. At the same time give it a look over...sometimes the small bearing rods slip and if so...it's junk. They get squeezed into the holders and are worthless.
I've changed these OWB many times and they don't come cheap. Ever since, I've always checked for flooding if after 3 or 4 rotorstarts without success. Just to make sure. Clear the engine of any fuel and rotostart again. Paranoid really. But works and I save on OWB alot more.
If your's is the F engine like mine, you may wanna consider the OWB mod which I may do next time it slips. The F engine has another slipping conrod on a spring internally so it works even with a dead but replacing the OWB. Only works with the F engine and not the K.

But if you feel it's flooding or fear it could be...stop! Clear and try again. Rotostarts flood engines easily!!

Also...make sure the NiMH in the rotostart is fully charged. I have a used NiMH in there and doesn't hold a charge for long...dies out pretty quick...hehe. When it loses power...it can hardly turn the engine.

 

[Joejoe7]

So the fly wheel moves fine even with the glow plug in

 

[timatworksg]

With the Glow Plug out....does the piston rise and fall when you turn the flywheel? Also does it feel smooth when you do so or any grindiness?
Remove the engine and remove the backplate. Check the OWB. At the same time you can have a look inside if the arm and the little pin with a spring behind it is all good.

 

[Joejoe7]

The engine piston seems to rise and fall fairly smooth. However, I think that part you mentioned before about being stuck in the holder is actually stuck. The part in the middle that says Germany won't budge when I try to push it out. Is this the issue you reckon?

 

[Joejoe7]

How do I determine what engine type I have? I looked for markings on my savage and saw nothing regarding F or K engine types. I attached a photo of my engine let me know what you think.

 

[timatworksg]

The OWB doesn't spin independently between the inner and outer. The part that says Germany shouldn't move at all and is locked with the Hex outer.
There are little rollers on the inside that roll along the shaft one way but not the other. When you pull start or rotostart these bearings are rolling into a locked position thus engaging the shaft and turning it and the piston. When the pull start is allowed to recoil, the rollers spin allowing the hex nut around it to spin freely not engaging the shaft.
When an engine floods with nitro, the rollers get wet and thus can't lock itself thus spinning rather then engaging the shaft. I spray mine with WD40 and then clean and dry them out and most of the time it works. Once I had 3 rollers tuck itself into the housing they are in...thus that OWB is junk.

It seems you have the F engine from the lack of a mid-range adjustment screw by the side of the carb. Best way to check is when you remove the back plate...the piston arm should be sitting on a small pin with a spring behind it. If you look at the part #1432 Starting Shaft it will have a groove with a slope. The groove engages when spun one way. If spun the other way, the pin retracts and slides along the face of the starter shaft and pops into the groove, then up the slope and retracts again.

Hope you understand my explanation...lol! Tried to be logically simplistic..haha!

 

[X]

You have a V1 F4.6 joejoe7. You won't find much info on this engine as it was discontinued for the V2 several years ago. Also most parts are not transferable between the V1 and the V2.

 

[Joejoe7]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the starting shaft looks fine and turns smoothlly. So this would be the part that I spray and clean. Sorry for my lack of terminology.

 

[Joejoe7]

Hey,
I posted this video on youtube so you can get a better understanding of the issue I am having.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks !

 

[Jam Racing 1]

thats a good sign the one way bearing is bad, replace that and you outta be ok, take a small punch and remove the one way bearing from the gear and replace that. be sure to reuse the spring and pin that goes in the crankshaft when ya put it all back together, a bit of grease on the pin will keep it in place while you reinstall the backplate assembly.....


http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPI-1430-On...637?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5afe73f41d

 

[Joejoe7]

Is that bearing only for pull starts? Does it matter that I have a roto start ?

 

[timatworksg]

The bearing is for both Pull and rotostart. The difference is the plastic backplate.
Buggies/truggies that use a starter box can make do without their OWB. Trucks cant use starter boxes...pity tho...lol. But ebay has good deals on the OWB so grab 2 or 3 pieces!

That pin in the video...is that from the crankshaft piston? The little hole you see in there. There should be a small spring in that hole with a pin over it. Check the manuals exploded diagram and you can see it. If thats the pin then it just sits in that hole on the crankshaft with a spring behind it. You need that small spring there.

The HPI OWB is the worse I have come across really compared to my Hoabo buggies. But then again...we need to know when we are over flooding the engine.
Like I mentioned before if I cant start my engine for 3 or 4 rotostart presses...I immediately remove the glow plug and fuel hose and drain whatever is in there just to play it safe.

 

[Joejoe7]

Awesome I'm going to get a few OWBs. Yeah that pin unfortunately fell out of the crankshaft piston. I see the spring still in there so guess I'll just slide that pin in. I'm definitely going to take precautions for now on and check for flooding after a few starting attempts. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

[Jam Racing 1]

yes install that pin and spring again, and like i said a bit of grease will hold that pin in place while you reassemble the engine backplate on the engine.....at times it helps to slightly rotate the engine a bit to get it all lined up but when it goes you will feel it all come together..... patience is your best friend when doing it....

 

[timatworksg]

Sounds Great joe! You have a plan now and all is good! As Jam mentioned...a little grease in there to stick it in place does help! Can be tricky to line them all up but you will know when it does. I normally put it TDC (top down center) and start from there.
Don't forget to grab some RTV sealant and seal the metal backplate since your there. Incidentally I have 2 spare OWB in case...haha!

 

[Joejoe7]

Hey guys good news I installed the OWB and got my savage going today. Bad news… After I ran one full tank of gas I noticed that when I would apply throttle the gear would not catch and slip. The truck would basically just rev and there was no wheel spin. I ran over to my savage and realized that the engine vibrated loose. What do you guys think I should do to avoid this from happening again? I think I might of grind the plastic wheel thing down a bit. Could this be because i didn't use sealant when installing the engine back in?

 

[Jam Racing 1]

plastic wheel thing ??? ya got me on this one.... and you should always use some blue locktite when installing screws into a metal part like the engine mount....