Hi to all new on here with a savage 21bb/3.5 need help

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Daz86

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Hi to all I'm new on here . as I can't get my car running right after changing fuels .i have bought a hip mt2 witch came with a 22bb savage engine fitted I also got a small amount of fuel with it .it worked fine until I bought sum more ment to be better fuel I have had nothing but problems since the switch over the car now bogs all the time .half and full throttle. I have tried tuning it slightly but it's made no difference at all .just annoying me now haha .can sum one please help me. Edit sorry I am using the same % fuel
 
get some more of the fuel that you got with it :D
what % fuel are you using also did you check the engine out, bearings, compression, glow plug, air leaks ect
 
A couple of pics of your stuff would be cool. and if ya can a vid of the problem with the truck running would be very helpful......
 
A couple of pics of your stuff would be cool. and if ya can a vid of the problem with the truck running would be very helpful......
.I'm using 20% fuel yer I've checked for air leaks ditched original fuel tank with primer and tried two glow plugs but no change . Since the fuel change I have had a lot of fuel leaking from the exhaust port causing my eezzee start to slip ..it sound way to rich but how can this just happen ....
 
Completely start over at stock settings with the tune. Any time you change fuels or glow plugs you have to retune, even if just a little.
 
might be that the fuel isnt right, if thats the case then just get another bottle of the fuel it came with or try another more recommended brand
 
Can't upload a vid of me iPhone nothing happens after it's bean compressed it's only 30 seconds long aswell
 
Well as X stated start with retuning the engine, get it to idle and go from there, most times when using a different fuel the engine will run way differently and need this....
what is the exact name of the fuel you are switching to and what % oil is in it....... I have been using Sidewinder Basher blend 20% for years it has 16% oil content and all my engines love it...... never need any afterrun oil to gum up my precious engines with either.......
and try hosting your pics and vids someplace like Photobucket for pics and Youtube for vids that way ya can load them here easily using the IMG copy
 
The fuel I got with it was. model technics 20%.. and the one I bought is optifuel 20% was recommended this buy a local hobby shop
 
Heard of Technics before, never heard of the optifuel before..... either way if it is fresh try going back to stock settings and tune from those settings
 
:rolleyes::)Am I right on thinking that stock setting are HSN is 3 1/2 turns from closed and the same for LSN .i have used optifuel in A .tmaxx and can genies they both loved it
 
https://www.hpisavageforum.com/threads/engine-factory-settings.11154/

Nitro Star S-25
HSN: 4 1/2 Turns From Closed
LSN: 3 Turns From Closed
IDEL: About 2mm

sorry I guess you have a .21 savage engine there, maybe the ones I listed are not correct ....'

My Force p4 .21 engine runs about 3 turns open hi and flush on the low with an idle gap of about 1mm. course these are just baseline settings and will vary from engine to engine....
 
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Thanks for all your help .I'll give it a try tonight after work and let you all no now I'm getting on
 
Agree with the starting all over again with stock settings! I started with Sidewinder and had to switch to Byron. Threw everything off!!
Reset and did the basics again. It all may seem a hassle to some....but the more you fiddle, the more you get to know your truck and tuning a nitro engine!
 
Agree with the starting all over again with stock settings! I started with Sidewinder and had to switch to Byron. Threw everything off!!
Reset and did the basics again. It all may seem a hassle to some....but the more you fiddle, the more you get to know your truck and tuning a nitro engine!
 
Oh I love a good fiddle with my real car and me nitro truck I'm just a bit unsure on the setting tho for my truck . Have found a thread saying that the setting on both are 3 1/2 turnes from fully closed . Can any one please confirm if that's correct
 
Oh I love a good fiddle with my real car and me nitro truck I'm just a bit unsure on the setting tho for my truck . Have found a thread saying that the setting on both are 3 1/2 turnes from fully closed . Can any one please confirm if that's correct

Someone isn't reading their own thread. Please look at post #12 where Jam already answered your question.
 
Yes I am haha then he said this lol ..sorry I guess you have a .21 savage engine there, maybe the ones I listed are not correct ....
 
Got the truck running a hell of a lot better now . The Lsn was at 4 1/2 turnes out an the HSN was 2 1/2 out reset them both to 3 1/2 out she started then cut out and wouldn't start again so had a tinker got here running again . With a. Nice improvement but still bogs and cuts out if I give full throttle from stand still
 
Sounds as if the high needle is a bit rich try leaning it a tiny bit at a time and see how it goes, if it has good punch off the line and gets going well it will just take a bit more tuning to get it running in top form......
 
Yes I am haha then he said this lol ..sorry I guess you have a .21 savage engine there, maybe the ones I listed are not correct ....

Didn't see that. I apologize.

To make up for it, here is HPI's page for base settings on that engine:

http://www.hpiracing.com/en/21bb-base-settings

21BB Base Settings
This walkthough explains how to return to base settings (factory settings) on your 21BB engine.

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The HPI 21BB engine has got a three needle carburetor with a high speed, a mid-range, and a low speed needle. Therefore bringing the low speed needle to it's base setting is slightly different from a two needle carburetor. In this walk through we will show you the differences between adjusting the 21BB engine and adjusting the S-25 as shown in great detail on the HPI RC cars DVD. For your 21BB engine we recommend watching the getting started S-25 video on the HPI RC cars DVD and reading this walkthrough in addition. There are also two video clips at the end of this page showing how to adjust the 21BB engine.

03.jpg
We start with the high speed needle.
Turn the needle clockwise until it is closed. This shuts off all fuel supply, then open three and a half turns anticlockwise, this is the base setting for the high speed needle. In most cases the high end needle is the only one which needs adjustment. So if you have problems always try resetting this high end needle to the base setting first.

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Now turn the midrange needle clockwise until it is closed.
From closed, open three and a quarter turns, this is the base setting for the mid-range needle.

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To return the low speed needle to its base settings you have to hold the mid-range needle with a screw driver to prevent it from being turned.

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Then cerfully turn the low speed needle clockwise until you can feel it is turning the midrange needle. Be carefull not to loose the base settings of the midrange needle. Then, still holding the mid-range needle, open the low-speed needle 3 and a half turns. This is the base setting of the low speed needle. You will use this base setting for breaking in the engine and as a starting point for the tuning process or fault finding.

Tuning the 21BB
[strong]Tuning the 21BB[/strong] To adjust your HPI 21BB engine follow the same procedure as with the S25 or T-15 engine. This is shown in great detail on the HPI RC Cars DVD.

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From base settings, start adjusting the high speed needle in 1/8 of a turn.

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Then adjust the low speed needle in 1/8 of a turn. Keep in mind: Never run the engine too lean, as this can damage the engine.

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The mid-range needle does not need to be adjusted. Always run it at base settings.
 
Base Settings

Your a absolute gem X this is what I've bean looking for .but I don't have a mid rane setting I don't think
 
You don't have a mid speed needle? I'm not shocked. I've seen 3 different versions of that engine, only the earliest seems to have a mid speed needle.

Luckily both of the other versions use the same stock settings:

upload_2015-3-2_15-17-39.png
 
Interesting. Make that 4 different versions I've seen. There is one that looks like yours, but with a carb that has a mid speed needle. Yours. One that looks like yours except it has a black cooling head. And the V2.

I'm beginning to wonder if the previous owner had the earliest version and replaced the carb with one from the newer versions.
 
1. Set everything back to flush/flush. Idle gap to ~1mm (use a paper clip)
2, Let run until crank case is heat saturated. Takes a bit longer due to TVP design...~1 - 1.5 tanks. You'll know once it's consistent with temps.
3. Put heat gun away. No longer needed.
4. Lean HSN 1/16 at a time until ballistic RPMs carry. Back off 1/16th turn.
5., Do some more hard passes...the engine will load up and two-stage (this what you want at this point)
6. Lean LSN 1/24 at a time until the idle stays consistent for min of 12 seconds. It will be high, but consistently high.
7. Lay down the idle until it's smooth and reliable. I don;t guy by sight but imagine .7mm is in the ball park.
8. More hard passes. If engine RPMs don't immediately drop to idle...you are too lean down low,. If they drop (even for a split second) and then rise, you are too lean up top. I usually end up almost always tweaking the top end after laying my idle due to RPMs carrying a tad,.

There is your base tune. Most newbies end up getting too lean up top, to phat dowin low and their idle is, well...not. Easier said then done...but that's my process and its a proven one. Once you work out kinks with ancillary items (fuel, plug, clutch, pipe, linkage, etc) you can start to race tune it were you smooth out the transition and such You'll never get a good tune with a poor clutch, linkage, fuel, etc.. Just respond with issue someone will get you going. Example: one thing I see a lot is guys getting that 'chewbacca' sound on deceleration. Easy fix if you have that...just not super intuitive (to me at least). Video is priceless as was noted.

Hope this helped some. My suggestion is to start with above so you at least know you have 'attempted' to get a nice little tune on it. It's not objective...an engine is properly tuned or not.

p.s. Midrange is really a seat and not so much a needle. Your hand won't explode touching it, I move mine as needed. Typically you'll want adjust the LSN the same amount...but this is more for transition in certain cases. I doubt it would be of use to you right now...but don't be afraid of it. I run a lot of OS engines and it's saved me on a few.
 
Thanks I'll give it another go tonight after work .. I tried to get here running last night she wouldent ever start . What a pain I shall have another go later . Don't want to resort to taking it to a shop
 
OP, unless it's firing when you turn it over assuming your plug, ignitor, fuel delivery system are good, it's just flooded. Quite often people will unflood...but they really haven't. I "fix" a lot of guys nitros in our neighborhood, I promise I see it a lot guys trying for days to start it thinking they have really unflooded it....but they really haven't. ;-)

Take off the plug, turn the vehicle upside down and really get after unflooding it. I mean for a good 2-3 minutes (in short bursts). Then, don't prime it. Get a hair dryer, place it directly over the cooling head and heat it for about 60 seconds. Then try to start. If it doesn't start in a few seconds...stop. If it hadn't started by then...it's not going to until you do something else. In this case prime it but very, very quickly, If you are able to watch the fuel go to the carb then the split second it it's going...stop priming. Then try to fire it up. If you cannot see the fuel going to the carb (clear fuel/dirty line), prime for 1 second. Then try to start,. Prime for 2 seconds, then try to start.

Now, if the engine is firing but won't start...turn your idle stop screw CW about one hour. Don't use your throttle trim as if you start it that way once you hit your brakes it will choke out

95% of the time, it's just flooded though. Your carb needles would have to be waaaaay off to prevent the engine from starting so I would not get caught up too much in getting precise stock settings (which are very rich anyway).

Above all, don't keep trying to start it if it won't start, It's a vicious cycle as I noted you can pull fuel in to the carb, eat up your ignitor batteries (they go fast), etc, You'll get it though. My instructions above were for setting a little tune on it...apologies as I was unaware you were not even able to start it.
 
Got it started yesterday no problem had my glow igniter on charge while I was in work must of just bean that .got it all set back to factory setting last night it's still bogging tho need to get it tuned now . Also it's not iderling smooth now
 

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