Savage XL Will not start

Hey, new to the forum here.

So I wound up buying an RTR Savage XL 5.9
At first it was pretty hard to start, especially in the cold weather, but I did get it running and have run about 4-5 tanks of fuel through it, not including the break in tanks.

So it had been running perfect and I thought I had a handle on the engine and tuning it, until last week when it decided that it did not want to start. It would turn over fine, and it would actually pop and burn fuel, and it got very close to starting, just never did. I tried again today with some warmer temperatures, still no luck. The closest I got was ONCE when it started up for about half a second, thenshut off and I couldn't get it running again.

There's new fuel in the tank, the roto start is fine, the glow plug and glow plug ignitor are fine, the air filter is fine, the gap in the carburetor is fine, the temperature is in the mid 50's, and I've started it in much colder weather than that. Fuel is getting to the engine fine. I even reset the needles to factory settings, still no luck. It just pops and acts like it wants to start but doesn't. Any suggestions? Thanks.

First off, welcome to the site!

You say the glow plug is fine, is it the same plug you've used through break in? If so, I would likely swap it out for a new one. Also, are you giving it a little bit of throttle when trying to start it? Sometimes that helps when they are being stubborn.

I'm with X. I was going to ask the same two questions.


Welcome to HPISF!

It's a different plug, almost brand new. I am giving it throttle, and that helps but it still just doesn't fire up. That's the reason i couldn't keep it going when it startedfor that half second, it was at at least 3/4 throttle and stalled form the sudden throttle up, though I'm not sure if it was that or if I just let off too quickly, because the sudden throttle up scared the crap out of me.

You shouldn't have to use the throttle much when starting, just enough to get the carb opened a little. Maybe 25%? Have you tried starting it with the wheels off the ground? Then you won't have to worry about it running away on ya.

Did you re-tune when you put in the new plug? It almost always requires it, atleast a little.

I always start with the wheels of the ground (Well, not always, but most of the time.) I have been trying to re-tune a little bit but not much. I'll see what I can do. As for the throttle I've tried a lot of combinations of tapping the throttle and leaving it open a bit. The last afjustment I made was to the idle screw to fix a problem I had with the engine cutting off when I hit the brakes. Could the idle screw adjustment be affecting this at all?

Yes, possibly. Take your filter off and look down your carb neck. Adjust the idle so that there is 1-2mm gap. That should atleast put you in the ballpark.

It is. The gap is on the large side, but it should be okay. Any suggestions on HSN or LSN adjustments?

This might be of no use but I couldn't get mine to start one day, the symptoms very similar to yours, then I discovered that a tiny bit of fuel had gummed up at the carb causing a blockage. Cleaned it out with fresh fuel and it's been fine ever since.

I'll have to see about that, it's very possible. I actually had a fuel line blockage not too long ago, perhaps I never fully got it cleaned out or something or it's just new fuel getting caught up.

Do you notice if your spur/clutchbell drag at all? Wondering if maybe you broke a spring and when it tries to start, it drags and stalls on you.

Okay, I tried cleaning the fuel lines, and I think it was a step in the right direction, becuase it really wanted to start then, and it seemed like it would. The on.y problem was that after about 2 seconds the OWB started slipping, so I have no idea if it will start. I tried degreasing the OWB but it didn't work and it still slipped. I hear about the OWB problems all the time; some people reccomend raplacing the bearing and then switching to a pull start rather than the roto? Would that be beneficial? I happen to have an old OWB that I thought had went bad, but it could work with some degreasing just maybe.

Right or qrong, idk, but my OWB acted up and I cleaned it once with carb cleaner and once with denatured alcohol. The carb cleaner seemed to work better.

Rooky said:

Right or qrong, idk, but my OWB acted up and I cleaned it once with carb cleaner and once with denatured alcohol. The carb cleaner seemed to work better.

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The only problem with using carb cleaner it has got to be plastic safe, those OWB's use a plastic cage inside and some cleaners will melt it and make it useless. I use Denatured alcohol and spin it a few times while washing it out , then I put a light coat of red grease inside and distribute it around well, I know it sounds wrong to grease the bearing but mine goes thru a season of starts without ever slipping.....

I think the grease actually repels the oil that gets on the bearing and helps it work without slipping....

Jam Racing 1 said:

The only problem with using carb cleaner it has got to be plastic safe, those OWB's use a plastic cage inside and some cleaners will melt it and make it useless. I use Denatured alcohol and spin it a few times while washing it out , then I put a light coat of red grease inside and distribute it around well, I know it sounds wrong to grease the bearing but mine goes thru a season of starts without ever slipping.....

I think the grease actually repels the oil that gets on the bearing and helps it work without slipping....

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Red grease? Like a heavy duty bearing grease?

Yep, I use chassis grease that goes in the tie rod ends and ball joints etc in full size cars.... I have a small container of the stuff, make sure it is out of a new tube so it is very clean...
been using it for years...

That would make sense. I think part of what makes OWB's fail is the varnish from the castor oil in the fuels. Makes the needle bearings stick in the race. So, having them coated with something would help avoid that varnish building up there.

When I clean a OWB, I soak it in DA for a few minutes, then I twist a paper towel really tight and stick it through the bearing, then I wet the part of the towel in the bearing with DA, then spin the bearing quite a few times in both directions so the soaked towel can work away the build up and pull the gunk out of the bearing. Then I let it air dry a bit and put some 3-in-1 oil on it or ARO. My external owb's last me a long long time. Internal ones are a bit more irritating since t hey are constantly bathed in the fuel as it goes through the engine. Not sure why any companies put the bearings inside, but many are.

Sounds like you might have gotten things sorted here! Excellent help from the forum friends I see. I might add, never assume the motor is getting fuel, I.e. I drop a bit into the carb and then attempt a start to see if we Have a change in starting. If that changes things then you know there is a fuel delivery issue.
When I got my Savage, we had a really torn exhaust manifold gasket... Thus low muffler pressure, thus low fuel pressure, and thus lean and funky running and stalling.

That exhaust thing might be part of the problem. I had a rough crash once that knocked the pipe off and it tore the rubber a little bit. That was either the last or second to last time I ran it. It started right up after I fixed it, but that might be because it had just been running. Of course, I can't really know unitil I fix the OWB problem, hopefully I can get that done soon.

Okay, I have been trying to get it started for a while. I have actually installed a brand new pull start to the engine because I heard that the roto start actually wears out the OWB faster than the pull start does. However, I can't get very far because when I turn the motor over with the pull start, it'll turn over for a bit, then get stuck at the top of the cylinder. I keep having to open it up and push the piston back down to the bottom, and by the time I get it all put back together it won't turn over again. It's like I can only turn it over with the glow plug out, and once the glow plug is in it just doesn't turn over at all. any suggestions on that?

I've heard it's possible to start the engine with the glow plug slightly loosened to reduce compression. Once it's running you can use your glow plug wrench to tighten it down.

I've been trying that a little but it didn't seem to make any difference. I could try it a few more times but I don't think that's the problem. I have heard that before though.

Find yourself a hair dryer and pre-warm the head. Loosened glow plug should help.

Open your throttle trim to make sure that you are getting enough air.

GAJ said:

Find yourself a hair dryer and pre-warm the head. Loosened glow plug should help.

Open your throttle trim to make sure that you are getting enough air.

Click to expand...

Wait, is this in reference to the piston getting stuck or just running it in general? Or both?

Getting it started while it is new. Heating it up will expand the cylinder a bit, freeing up the piston.

In theory, the head should always be pre-warmed to reduce wear at start up, but I don't think many people do this. If the ambient temp is cold, it will also be beneficial.

I tried this, and loosening the glow plug. I got a little closer. I was able to turn over the motor with a glow plug in, but the ignitor was not fully charged. I'll have to try it with a charged ignitor later.

How far can you unscrew the glow plug without losing all compression? I felt compression, but I was just wondering. I think I'm getting close.

Usually just around 1/4-1/2 turn loose is plenty to release some compression.

Okay, I tried much of what you have said so far. I heated up the head, loosened the glow plug, still nothing. Like I said, I'm getting closer, but it still just keeps getting stuck.

I still think you would have better luck with the rotostart unit over a pull start as it will spin the engine a bit faster to get it started a bit more easily....

I used a tiger drive on my new OFNA .32 and it worked perfectly with loosening the plug a turn then tighten it up after it was running.... I am a dedicated pull start hater tho

Perhaps you are right. When I first got the car I had to start it with a drill. The roto start didn't have the torque to even turn it over. I had a particularly tight and stubborn engine. I have never used a pull start before, so for all I know I could be a pull start hater too. The only problem is it's a giant pain in the rear to take the roto start thing off. There's barely any room behind the engine, and the engine actually goes underneath the right TVP. This in turn makes it almost impossible to quickly and easily remove all four screws. I actually cut about 3 inches off of my wrench so I could actually fit it back there. But if I continue to have problems I'll probably switch over to the roto start. At least until I get the car running and it loosens up.