Trouble Turning [Archive] - HPISavageForum.com

savagecre

03-07-2006, 07:20 PM

Ive got the savage 25 limited edition 3 speed. The engine is tuned runnin real good pulling wheelies almost every time working the throttle just right. But watchingthe truck I notice the power I'm generating out lifts the front end up alot not giving me front end grab.( I now see how folish that big motor would be, lol.) The truck is stock on wide open throttle or even half throttle the truck is fast and I cant turn like i want has any one got Ideas......I do but some of you might have done somthing allready..... its got the dirt bones tires but the way the front of the truck lifts off the ground there's no traction......

savagekicknmaxx

03-07-2006, 07:23 PM

Don't pull wheelies? Seriously though what steering servo are you running? does not steer when you go wot or not steer sitting still? Need more info to help you out.

savagecre

03-07-2006, 07:38 PM

Ive got the stock servo but the problem is the front of the truck lifts of the ground when I give it some gas and doing like a s pattern takes alot of room The wheels are turning but Im not diggin in cuz there is no weight up there ( The torqe of the motor lifts the front of the truck up)

jrstorm

03-07-2006, 07:39 PM

when the front is off the ground you are loosing steering? that sounds about correct. in mine i notice the steering isnt as good under acceleration.thats normal if the front is lifting. try stronger rear springs, or more shims in the rear shocks. the stronger springs might keep the rear from dropping as much. but it might make the wheelies worse. try to experiment with it a little.

savagecre

03-07-2006, 07:44 PM

yeah I was thinking stronger springs in the back to.

jrstorm

03-07-2006, 08:00 PM

mine dose that too but since i put larger tires and wheels its not as bad as it used to be. it still dose it and wheelies badly.im running the sts .28 with a 3 speed. i also am using a 17/52 gear. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/jrstorm/DSCF000300.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/jrstorm/DSCF0002.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/jrstorm/DSCF0004.jpg

jrstorm

03-07-2006, 08:07 PM

all of my trucks with larger engines in them have the lifting problem. when the front wheels are off the ground it dosent matter what servo you have.one thing i found to help some was to tighten the spanner ring on the servo saver. the purple shaft on the steering has a nurled nut and a spring that controls the pressure applied to the servosaver.i had to locktight mine because it was backing off.once i did that it helped alot.

savagecre

03-07-2006, 08:23 PM

Man and here I was looking at a seriously big engine ( that was silly ) I was also thinkin of adding a little wieght up front with stronger springs all around also. Mainly because when approching a ramp i need control of the truck My servos seem to be fine for what I do i dont race pro or anything just bashin aroud but I can see that when I build my track I guess I'll be makin WIDE turns lol.

jrstorm

03-07-2006, 08:38 PM

me either. i just bash. i would try diffrent spring combos.the larger wheels really helped me. we run in loose sugar sand and it really looses traction easialy.our field we run in is fairly large and its easy to do more sweeping turns. but on the perimiter of our "bash pit" is a oval kind of track. when i need to make a sharp turn im usally on the breaks so it turns fine then . it only gets squirly on throttle turns.sometimes if i let off the trigger some for a sec or so it lets the front drop enough to let the fronts steer some. when i run my sons pirate [stock .21 engine] i have to change my driving a little. im used to thinking ahead some with mine. with his it turns where it is told to and is pretty easy to drive. mine is easy to loose control, sometimes it fishtails like crazy til i let off and let it grab. sometimes it will wheelie all the way across the field, then flip when it hits third if i keep going.its all in learning the truck and what it needs to work.my 8 year old son is really good at driving,but he has to run a 1/2 tank in mine to learn what it needs to be controlable.he didnt like it at first and told me it was overpowered. but now he loves it now hes used to it. now he wants an sts for his truck. i

garagedoorguy

03-07-2006, 10:24 PM

Sounds like you are getting used to the savage sir. I know what you are talking about. When you want it to dig in, and snap through a turn, it just lifts the weight off the opposite front wheel and slows down what you think would happen. Spring combos help but it still happends, especially if you are in loose terrain. Try putting a diff lock in the front. This will keep equal power to both front wheels, and help pull you through the corners. You won't get the sideways effect, but 4wd rc's seem immune to that. You should reinforce the diff at that time, so you don't have the diff prob's that some of us have had. Hope this helps dude.

RickSavage

03-07-2006, 11:25 PM

Well a wheelie bar may be a more simpler solution, that will keep the front down so he can steer.....rick

savagecre

03-07-2006, 11:58 PM

how much is a difflocker like 50 or 60 bucks garagedoorguy?

hey jrstorm at least you have a boy Ive got girls and they think my truck is stupid I'm going to need to paint a body like (Barbie) or somthing lol

savagecre

03-08-2006, 08:10 PM

hey rick savage its not that the wheels are comin off the ground its the fact that the rear is over powerin the front....

jrstorm

03-08-2006, 08:16 PM

now im lost? are you sure the fronts are getting power? you might be loosing the front end like i have had happen. do you ever hear a crunching sound? i loose power to the front when its under load but the front spin when its off the ground.

savagekicknmaxx

03-08-2006, 08:36 PM

hey rick savage its not that the wheels are comin off the ground its the fact that the rear is over powerin the front....

I have never heard the rear overpowering the front, the tranny makes equal power to front and rear, if this is the case need to check your front diff, but even still I have ran just rear diff and my front actually turned better, and was able to fling it around in corners. I have the stock 25 motor with a port and polish and it will dip the rear end and pull wheelies but I can still turn when I want to but also have better than stock servo. Check your front steering parts, make sure none are binding up some of those parts have to be a tad loose for the sterring to work good.

RickSavage

03-08-2006, 08:50 PM

Do you happen to a locker or spool in the rear diff ? That or locked up bevel gears is the only thing i can think of that would make the rear wheels over power the front wheels..... Rick

garagedoorguy

03-08-2006, 09:56 PM

Savageacre, the diff locks are only about 20 bucks. You probably should put some more money into it to reinforce it though. A wheelie bar is a good idea but won't help you in this situation. What I have noticed with my savage, is when you throw it into a coner and get right on the power, the momentum takes most of the weight off the opposite front wheel and it breaks traction. The trans puts equal torq to both front and rea wheel, but you might notice that when the wheels are turning and you grab either on front, or one rear the other side spins twice as fast. I think the diff lock will help that other wheel dig in like it should. Hope this helps sir.

savagecre

03-08-2006, 11:39 PM

yeah see now when I say the rear is over powering the front I dont mean literally I mean traction . this is good the info I got will help.

this is the path that my truck would take with the wheels cranked to the right

xxxxxxx
x
x
x
x
x
by now Ive got to brake
x

x
thats how would turn its a huge sweep but I got to also
realize that this is just a model truck cuz a real 4x4 would not do that unless it was way over powered and not getting traction to the front but then again they also put the engine up front too... need more wieght up there
I'll get it.... thanks guys

savagecre

03-08-2006, 11:40 PM

opps that dide not work right with the x's lol thats stupid.lol

savage4.8matt

03-09-2006, 09:30 AM

hi, just of the topic but wots the 2 tanks all about??? just wonderin, better flow or performance?thanks matt :D
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/jrstorm/DSCF000300.jpg

DZ2

03-09-2006, 12:02 PM

DO NOT PUT A LOCKER IN THE FRONT! Instead try changing the diff fluid to no more then 300k (maybe start with 100k), you can lock the rear but you need to have some give in the front or you will break gears and will not be able to turn as tight with a locker in the front. Also while using a locker in the rear ONLY, you should avoid driving on hardball surfaces.....dirt only! For the wheelie problem there is 2 places to start...
#1: Try putting a higher gear ratio, less torque = less wheelies + higher top speed, don't go to high though as you will eat up the clutch very fast.
#2: Adjustable shocks, with the right settings you can get the chassis sitting lower to the ground which will improve handling tremendously. Adjustable shock towers are good too. Run a 15-20 Wt. shock fluid and use heavier springs if you want to jump, heavier shock fluid will cause the shafts to bend so change springs according to how & what you are driving on.

IMO start by changing the clutch bell/ spur gear combo, alot cheaper and will make a huge difference.

Savage Gear Chart: (http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/instr/savagegears.jpg)
http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/instr/savagegears.jpg

jrstorm

03-09-2006, 03:46 PM

the second tank solves the half tank lean problem.it gives the engine a steady fuel supply all the time.

savagecre

03-09-2006, 07:57 PM

I thought it was just grease in the diffs? when I pulled the skid plat off when I got the truck to check things out there was grease in the diff. 95% of my driving is on Dirt or short grass...

savagekicknmaxx

03-09-2006, 07:59 PM

They come factory with grease but can be filled with the diff fluid since they are a sealed diff cup.

garagedoorguy

03-09-2006, 08:04 PM

garagedoorguy

03-09-2006, 08:06 PM

A rear locker will just push the front end around. It does it with anything four wheel drive.

DZ2

03-09-2006, 08:39 PM

I didn't see your post re: "to reinforce the front diff" when I posted, sorry. I too have first hand experience as well, wasn't just posting what I said having no experience and of course it will work fine............until something breaks because of it, I never said it wouldn't work. Try measuring the turning radius with and without the front locked, there is a difference in size (maybe it has something to do with your statement of the front end getting pushed around?) When steering, the front wheels will spin at different speeds (simple physics really) so with the front locked, both wheels will spin at the same rate which causes a lack of traction on the inner wheel meaning you are really only steering with 1 wheel while the other is just lifted and spinning. Ever look at the marks a 4 wheel drive leaves on concrete when all wheels are locked? Same principal and not recomended to do on a hard surface that doesn't allow any slip in traction. I do have both finals locked on 1 of my RC's and that 1 only gets driven in mud, sand, snow etc.

garagedoorguy

03-09-2006, 08:47 PM

I was lead to believe that he is only running on dirt. I probably should have mentioned that on hard surfaces, it's probably not a good idea. I run in soft dirt, and it helped out alot. I wasn't testing your experience sir. As with you, we are all just trying to help and our personal experience is what we have to go on. I apologize for any misunderstanding, and we should try not to confuse him.

DZ2

03-09-2006, 09:08 PM

I agree it's so easy to get carried away with feeling challenged in forums and I didn't mean any disrespect to you or anyone else and their experience. He also mentioned doing "S" turns it go's pretty wide, try going with a different set of tires that don't baloon out as much as the stockers, tires make a big difference in handling as well.

jrstorm

03-09-2006, 09:17 PM

thats pretty cool. iv never seen that on any forums.you guys have got class. this is the best forum i go on. i was really impressed. most of the forums everyone has an attitude and always trying to tell someone theyr wrong and argue all the time. i really like this forum because it seems we all get along and have good ideas about how to help someone instead of trying to argue all the time. just wanted to share and tell you guys you have my respect.

RickSavage

03-09-2006, 09:36 PM

I agree with JR this is the best forum I go on too. There always seems to 1 or 2 smart a@@es ys know ? Everyone seems really nice here.... Rick

savagecre

03-09-2006, 10:10 PM

WoW yes very cool for a second I thought there was going to be blows lol and I do drive In dirt and low cut grass some mud I live out in the country have an acre of land and trying to decide how to build my track with realistic turns for my truck I kinda figured that the tires that Im presently running on or the dirt bonz stock tires not a lot of tread plus Im finding that my bat. pack in the savage needs to be upgraded.. plus yes a better servo. I recently replaced the fuel lines and now the engine runs better giving me more power Im running thestock gear and slipper gear that came with the truck my shocks and well basically the whole truck is STOCK. but payday is tomarrow so LHS here I come.... and yeah this is the best Forum Ive found

garagedoorguy

03-09-2006, 10:22 PM

You started it lol. I think we can all agree, that this hobby involves alot of research and even more trial and error and what works for one guy, might be exactly what the next guy doesn't need. I think the best advece I have heard in any of my hobbies is "let the machine tell YOU what it needs", and that is what I try to tell everyone else. I know it sucks throwing money away, but my wife thinks I did that when I bought it.lol

savagecre

03-09-2006, 10:31 PM

LOL mine too. I was also looking at jrstorms truck with the big tires I like that and that would also help to ahh Its all good in the neighborhood...Im just glad I found this site....

jrstorm

03-09-2006, 10:43 PM

i agree with all. it is all what your truck needs. we are all from diffrent places and what works for one dosent always work for another. the thing we all can do is to share what has worked for us and what hasnt.as for me the best thing i ever did was to put the sts engine in my truck and the header tank then the tires and wheels. in the soft sand i run in those huge tires relly let the truck bite in the sand but also let me drive it on the street too. when i posted on other sites there were all kinds of people saying the overheating was the tuning, and where i run at. iv been tuning 2 strooke engines for 20 years and nitro for 3-4 and they are diffrent but almost exactly the same in a lot of ways. the thing iv noticed on other sites is there are people who are always correct and not willing to try somthing diffrent to see what it dose. i really like that termonology, let the machine tell you what it needs. thats pretty much true, these engines and trucks will talk to us and tell what they need if we just listen and figgure out what it is doing and see what works and what dosent work. well i really think there is a great bunch of great guys here to bounce ideas off of.

jrstorm

03-09-2006, 10:47 PM

oh yea one thing this site really needs is a chat room so we all can talk at one time live. or atleast a groupe instant messaging system.i know we got the shout box but im thinking of somthing that is more suted for instant conversations. we would fill the shout box up too quickly.

garagedoorguy

03-09-2006, 11:23 PM

That's a great idea, and the only thing missing from this site. Maybe we should try using the shout box more often. I know when I get on, until recently, I kind of ignore the shoutbox at first. I don't know all the details about it, but it seems like that is what it is for.

savagecre

03-10-2006, 07:28 PM

well I bashed inbetween the rain today and just praticedgoing in circles in a tight area you know when the grass is wet its harder to turn lol. but got it down now man I need to start my course cant wait till summer and all this stupid rain goes away. you know the weather man says its going to be 30 tomarrow and possibly snow here in the bay area WoW. thats very cold...

jrstorm

03-10-2006, 09:31 PM

it takes some time to learn how the truck drives. i had to since putting in the sts engine. it runs like its supposed to now . im finally able to bash like the savage was designed to be run.sometimes i can blip the throttle some to get it to steer better. but the sand i run in isnt the easiest to turn in anyway.but on pavement it turns like its on rails.also check out the 2 screws on the bottom of the truck. the ones that go into the servo saver from the bottom, if their too tight it will bind the steering.[i forgot about those] i tightened them real tight once and found i had no steering under load.it also wore my batterys down quickly.its easy to over tighten those.

savagecre

03-10-2006, 10:33 PM

Ho really thats interesting thanx I'll check mine. finally got the Avatar I wanted thats my truck..

jrstorm

03-10-2006, 10:37 PM

pretty cool truck. i like that body.

savagecre

03-11-2006, 03:27 PM

I think I might have got my self into some trouble. to day I was out bashin around getting totally into it to got the truck slidin sideways and just rippin around on loose gravel I did flip only once and that is when my air cleaner fell off. I didnt know this untill after I was done running. I forgot to zip tye the thing on I ran for about 5to 8 min. without the air cleaner the truck ran ok but Im afraid to run it again ...... Should I take the motor down and clean it or what should I do ... not worry or what?

jrstorm

03-11-2006, 03:42 PM

do you think it got sand in it? if i was running mine in the sugar sand i run in id do a good clean and inspect. but if you wernt runing in dusty condtions it might be ok. they say never run it without the air filter,though.id probally clean it out just to make sure. if anything pull the head and flush it with fresh fuel. and maby take off the backplate to check there too.pull out the gp and see what it looks like. do you see dirt in the throat of the carb?

savagecre

03-11-2006, 03:47 PM

yeah just alittle dusty looking I should just tear it down not take any chances

jrstorm

03-11-2006, 03:52 PM

yep thats what id do just to be safe

savagecre

03-12-2006, 10:56 AM

Well last night I opened the motor and cleaned every thing the carb and all It looked ok inside just alittle grimmy put it back together and I run it later today...

savagecre

03-12-2006, 10:58 AM

you know one other thing this fuel im running leaves a bluish green kinda slime I see it in the exhaust but my pipe is solid (closed up) so do I just soak it in a solvent or what its the hpi sport tuned aluminum pipe...

savagekicknmaxx

03-12-2006, 02:31 PM

Some of the fuels have a dye in there so you can see inside the tank. Odennals is the one that doesn't have any dye and its a clear and hard to see. One good thing about have the dye in there is when you do a port and polish you can see the parts that need a little work.

savagecre

03-12-2006, 07:42 PM

now did you port your own or did you have some one else

savagekicknmaxx

03-12-2006, 08:02 PM

I did it myself, was pretty scared at first took me a long tim eto get the nerve up to do it, but am glad I did it. Its a new truck that .25 opened up with a port and polish.

garagedoorguy

03-13-2006, 07:23 PM

I did mine too. The instructions seem a little unclear at first, but when you get into it, it makes more sense. I got great results, and had a great time doing it, but I too was crazy nervous. The only downfall I noticed, was it cut my run times down a couple minutes or so. You should have the 4.6 though and when I did mine I don't think anybody tried it on one yet. Maybe you can be the first...hahaha.

savagecre

03-13-2006, 07:28 PM

thats somthing that I would like to try but I want to have an extra sleave just incase I screw up is there anydirections on how or did you just go by looks if you dont mind telling your secrets....?

garagedoorguy

03-13-2006, 07:48 PM

There used to be a link on this site with the directions. That's how I did mine, and I can't even begin to explain it. They might still be hidden in here somewhere, but I can't find them right now. Someone will probably come across with them seeing this. You will want an extra crank too. I wish I could be more help sorry dude.

savagecre

03-13-2006, 07:51 PM

Its cool man thanks for tryin ..

HPI_Savage25

06-23-2006, 03:49 PM

check your batteries and get one with metal gears.. servo that is

macsquirty

06-23-2006, 04:54 PM

Hi savagecre, here is the link for porting your .25 engine;)

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/rc/articles/htpporting_3.asp

HPI_Savage25

06-23-2006, 05:06 PM

how hard is it to port it??

savagecre

05-11-2007, 12:18 AM

good lord reading this from when I was a new bee is pretty funny. Im just now starting the porting job on the .25 lol thats funny

DOOBEEWHA

05-11-2007, 04:09 AM

I think it also has to do with CG. (Center of Gravity) On your truck, look at all the wieght and mass thats above your axils. Lowering your CG will dramatically improve this lifting problem. You'll sacifice some ride hieght and maybe not want to get big air but your handling will be killer. For an experiment, take some large, long, tie-wraps and strap down your susspension equally, through the A-arms and body mounts, or where you can find a good spot and nip off the tie-wrap ends. Now give it spin. With street tires, It's like turnning your truck into a sports car. It's great for pavement racing. just remove the ties at the end of the day so you don't weaken your springs over time.

savagecre

05-21-2007, 10:51 PM

YEAH but at the time I wrote this I didnt know that there were after market parts I mean the thread is from March 2006

DOOBEEWHA

05-22-2007, 01:48 AM

No correction implied,bro

savagecre

05-22-2007, 08:56 PM

LOL nun taken Bro just a reply. CUZ now she turns on a dime ( well a big Dime)lol.

MTBikerTim

06-22-2007, 04:44 AM

A big dime is right. I have taken my truck to the local track a couple of times. That was when I noticed how bad the turning circle really was on the stock savage. Every time I got slowed down before a corner (mostly due to spinning out) I wouldn't be able to get it around the corners. The only way I could get it around most of the corners is to tap the breaks and turn to get a heap of over steer. There is definitely a lot of things you can improve on a stock savage.

DOOBEEWHA

06-22-2007, 07:34 AM

Hey MTBikerTim, as long as your sure you don't need to change your batteries, take a look at the servo saver under the servo compartment. It's a pain in the a$$ to get to, but the ADJUSTABLE servo saver can be tighten up and your stering will improve greatly. I hope this helpped.

MTBikerTim

06-22-2007, 07:15 PM

I probably should tighten up the servo saver. It is definitely set pretty loose. It won't help to much at the track i don't think but I run on grass a lot and I have noticed the steering has a lot more movement then it should. Once i get a new throttle mixer today I will see how my steering goes as I have just put a tower pro 955mg servo in the steering. Not a great servo but they are cheap.

DOOBEEWHA

06-23-2007, 02:47 AM

Dude, the 955mg is a desent servo. Depending on your tire size, just leave enough spring in the saver to protect the servo. I'd say about half tension should do it.

[hs] darkshine

06-23-2007, 04:23 AM

sorry if this has been stated, but i've just skimmed the thread.
the reason it doesn't turn on gas is due, in part to the savs' 4 wheel drive system.
i'll explain- as there is no centre diff, as is common in all automotive 4wd systems, all torque from the motor is split equally between front and rear diffs, making it understeer, as too much grunt is going to the front end.

i had the same issue, and i found running a really thick grease (car cv grease) in the rear diff and a light oil in the front has helped no end, in my oppinion STAY AWAY FROM DIFF LOCKS, especailly if you're going round corners- it will break the casings/driveshafts/other bits!!

the idea of a diff locker is for hill climbs. going to the main properties of a diff, it is there to allow the vehicle to turn corners, as round a corner the inside wheel travells a shorter distance than the outer, so the diff allows cornering to take place without stressing components, now this is a good thing, but it does mean that if one wheel on an axle (or a different axle with a centre diff-not a torsen, these do not have the same issue) looses traction, it's like electricity, it will take the line of least resistance, thats why when the sav is on its' side, it will spin the wheels in the air.

so there we have it, a load of rambleing!

also, on another note, it might be worth looking at a mid tank mod, because it puts more weight on the front end (until the tank gets low!!) and it looks cool to boot!!

X25

06-23-2007, 06:37 PM

good job explaining that HS i agree no diff locker

lifter37

06-23-2007, 10:21 PM

has anybody tried diff oil. try 30,000wt. fr. and 10,000 wt. rear. that should improve turning alot.

MTBikerTim

06-24-2007, 01:41 AM

I have to say the new servo has made a massive difference. The brakes work better (the stock sr2 is now on the throttle) and the 955 definitely makes the steering a lot better. My engine is now running better too. I don't think my old sr1 servo even had enough power to open the throttle all the way. The new throttle and brake linkages are helping too.