STS .30 rev2 [Archive] - HPISavageForum.com

thrasher6

03-10-2007, 03:49 PM

[QUOTE=polystyrene;17363]i would worry less about tempretures. you shouldnt tune by temp, but by performance.QUOTE]

:withstupid: I agree - it's all about the performance. I've run the heck out of an engine at well over 300 degrees and it held up great for a long time, and ran awesome. It's all about the performance. I wouldn't run it at 500 or anything, but you can go a little over their recommended and it'll be fine as long as it's performing right.

[hs] darkshine

03-10-2007, 04:00 PM

i think polly was saying that you should tune by the feel, noise and smell (?) of an engine, not by a temp gun....i dont even own one. i need to get one to just check the temps, but i wouldn't tune by it. it's just handy as a reference....

Supertib

03-10-2007, 05:59 PM

I got my new motor broken in and it starts and runs great but at wide open throttle it seems to scream for a sec then it acts like it is loosing fuel but it has a good smoke trail and its running around 200-220 degrees any suggestions???

a revision 2 is going to take at least 1 full galon to break in, posible 1.5 gallons... till it hits 1 gallon refrain from WOT passes, you will damage the motor for sure.

Jeremy

03-10-2007, 06:07 PM

I was doing wide open runs w/ my sts at 1/2 gallon on my 3rd gallon now runs like a top !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Supertib

03-10-2007, 06:47 PM

I was doing wide open runs w/ my sts at 1/2 gallon on my 3rd gallon now runs like a top !!!!!!!!!!!!!

the looser STS mills that is fine to do.. the tighter ones its a very bad idea. You must be sure the piston has sealed to the sleeve before you start beating on it.....

But I guess I know nothing about these engines !!!!!!

polystyrene

03-11-2007, 05:57 AM

a revision 2 is going to take at least 1 full galon to break in, posible 1.5 gallons... till it hits 1 gallon refrain from WOT passes, you will damage the motor for sure.

1 to 1.5 gallons. thats alot of fuel. i want a engine to be tuned by 5 to 7 tanks and then last alot of gallons.

1 or 1.5 gallons is alot of the engines life to use up just running it in imo

Supertib

03-11-2007, 08:49 AM

depends what you consider break in... I run 10 tanks of heat cycle... then I run the motor for about 1 gallon, gently increasing the engines load and RPM every tank...

for a motor to be broken in correctly, the metal to metal pinch must be gone..the piston needs to seat to the sleeve and make a seal.... this usualy takes 1 full gallon... I dont baby it, but i also wont wind it out either.

i got 14 gallons from my last modded mill, a SH28P6 .... and it was also amazingly fast. I regularly get over 10 gallons from any mill, and i have owned 100's.. I have been doing Nitro since 1984, i'm an old guy LOL

I watched your video's Jester, and your motor is far from "running like a top" it actualy sounds very rough IMHO... No insult meant, but i guess my idea of a proper running engine is a whole world different then yours..

Supertib

03-11-2007, 08:52 AM

1 to 1.5 gallons. thats alot of fuel. i want a engine to be tuned by 5 to 7 tanks and then last alot of gallons.

1 or 1.5 gallons is alot of the engines life to use up just running it in imo

then stick to the lower end engines like Axials, they dont make enough RPM to really need to worry much about break in....

try your style with a Nova 28, Picco 28, STS 30 and see how far ya get...you'll be popping and sputtering on top like crazy and burning thru glow plugs faster then you can imagine...7 tanks is not nearly enough break in sorry to say !!!!

Supertib

03-11-2007, 08:53 AM

I was doing wide open runs w/ my sts at 1/2 gallon on my 3rd gallon now runs like a top !!!!!!!!!!!!!

i just watched your vids dude, that motor aint running like a top.. she sounds rough and is way down on power IMHO

http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/stitchdoctor/?action=view&current=STS30stg1.flv
- this is a STS 30, on a HPI polished pipe, all 4 head shims still in motor-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g-tOGQAf1o

and here is another STS 30 with the STS pipe

in case you guys havn't noticed the STS motors really need a good pipe to run nicely, mainly the STS pipe.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2976885989159158821

and here are two more vehicles with my motors.. the first is a Mach 427 in a Hellfire, the second the STS 30 in a 1" extended 14.5 lb Savage.

polystyrene

03-11-2007, 09:08 AM

then stick to the lower end engines like Axials, they dont make enough RPM to really need to worry much about break in....

try your style with a Nova 28, Picco 28, STS 30 and see how far ya get...you'll be popping and sputtering on top like crazy and burning thru glow plugs faster then you can imagine...7 tanks is not nearly enough break in sorry to say !!!!

i run RB engines in my race trucks too with the same method. each to there own though, was just giving my opinion

imo the sts engines arent great, thats my opinion based on what i have seen of them so far and there are alot at my club and only 1 seems to run well

Supertib

03-11-2007, 09:44 AM

i run RB engines in my race trucks too with the same method. each to there own though, was just giving my opinion

imo the sts engines arent great, thats my opinion based on what i have seen of them so far and there are alot at my club and only 1 seems to run well

7 tanks break in on a RB, dam dude shoot some vid !!!!!!! that is a very impatient break in, i wonder how it runs...

as for STS, yes they are not for idiots thats for sure... rush the break in, and you'll have a problem motor, its that simple.

My own STS mills are amazing, strong enough that Jammin Jay and Chad Bradly were both amazed by them... the strongest mill at a National event, as well as 10 minutes run time... I have even Jammin Jays opinions on video !!

STS is so far ahead of Axial its not even funny .. and Axial 28 is nothing more then a RTR HPI 4.6.... Lots of bottom, but zero top end IMHO...way too slow to race with.

anyways heres Jammin Jay halsey driving my CRT at the Canadian Nationals , that's Chad bradly standing in pit lane helping start it, and the voice up on the stand is Jammin Jay and Gary Guest

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4216174479472740173

in this vid, the STS 30 wasn't quite tuned yet, as it was the first time running it at the event.... But we layed a whooping on every other motor on the track.. with 15 pro's in atttendance, we qualified 16th...

Supertib

03-11-2007, 09:57 AM

here is another angle of jammin Jay driving the STS 30 powered CRT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfpZO8ccJJA

its all in the breakin guys, break in a motor slowly, and make sure its setup correctly and they will run like a top... Do a rushed 7 tank break in and you will never, ever get anywhere near optimal performance from an engine.... For me an engines life is always 10 plus gallons, i usualy reitre them before they stop running.... Or i blow them up for fun LOL

Supertib

03-11-2007, 10:31 AM

hey guys, I must add.. I am not the best at writing my thoughts, my writing skills are not the best... So if i sound like a ****, or rude please dont be offended.. I am not very good at getting my thoughts down on paper, and I am only trying to help people get the most from their engines....

for break in, yes you can do a fast break in, and make a motor track ready in 10 tanks, alot of pro's use this method.. The problem is this method will cause our engine to wear out very fast, which is fine for a sponsored pro... but for an average Joe it means a motor going dead much sooner then it needed to... The faster you break your motor in, the faster its going to wear out.. as well the con rod and bushings willalso take a beating.

the slower heat cycle break in will give you a much tighter piston seal, and a motor that lasts much longer.. Usualy i have no isue getting over 10 gallons thru any engine..Some of them modded mills spinning as much as 7000 RPM more then stock.

I do all my break in on a break in bench, using a prop for load.. This allows me to perfectly control the temperature, RPM and load on the engine... And usualy by this method i can have a motor track ready in about 10 -15 tanks, and at peak performance at 1.5 gallons. The prop break in bench is the easiest, fastest most reliable method to break in a new engine...I highly recomend it to everyone.

]-[0pa]0ng

03-11-2007, 10:41 AM

Supertib - You have a link for a breakin bench? Thanks for taking the time to help everyone including myself. Breakin period has always been a week point for me.

Jeremy

03-11-2007, 12:03 PM

[QUOTE

I watched your video's Jester, and your motor is far from "running like a top" it actualy sounds very rough IMHO... No insult meant, but i guess my idea of a proper running engine is a whole world different then yours..[/QUOTE]

I am happy the was it runs iam running 47 16 combo on it right now In the last vid I never even opend it up so you couldn't really c how it was running...on the top end.. I am never clamied to be a engine tunning expert and Iam still learing more everyday. For for what I do (bashing ) the engine runs good for me) If I was a racer I would worrie more about it.. So that MHO!!

Xjeepguy

03-11-2007, 05:20 PM

Spertib, I see your little jabs, and its not cool. Just because you have these engines doesnt make you an authority, and downing another brand just to push your STS engines isnt gonna cut it here. I prefer Axial, but I dont say any other engine is junk or trash just because I prefer another brand. I happen to know the Axial and K4.6 are two very different engines.

Enough with the cracks already, and if you dont like it, you can go elsewhere. I have had it with the negative engine wars.

Supertib

03-11-2007, 06:12 PM

Xjeepguy

03-11-2007, 06:22 PM

My appolgies for Jabs..i will keep it in check !!

Axial 28 and K4.6 are nearly 100% identical.... slight difference in crank, sleeve identical.

We compared the sleeves between one of our old K-4.6 sleeves, and our Axial sleeve from the blown engine we bought, and the porting was more agressive on the axial. It wasn't a huge difference, but enough to explain the dyno chart.

SAVAGESMASH

03-11-2007, 09:38 PM

Im running trinity monster power 20% nitro It warmed up a little outside today and i seem to have it running a bit better should I remove any of the head shims will it make it run any different>>????

Supertib

03-12-2007, 08:14 AM

We compared the sleeves between one of our old K-4.6 sleeves, and our Axial sleeve from the blown engine we bought, and the porting was more agressive on the axial. It wasn't a huge difference, but enough to explain the dyno chart.

I have both mills apart on the bench a 4.6 and a Axial 28..sleeve is 100% identical, same timing, same porting... the cranks are slightly different, but identical timing, the Axial has a crude turbo crank, the 4.6 doesn't... The difference in the dyno is from using different glow plugs more then anything...I am sorry to say but a Axial 28 is truly just a slightly touched (and I mean slightly) K4.6....I have modded quite a few Axials, and have several hours of video of them running as well....Not knocking it, but it is what it is..An Axial 28 would be a waste of money to upgrade to from a 4.6 IMHO, give each motor equal squish clearance, equal fuel, and equal plugs, and the dyno results would be identical...... I have measure the sleeves and cranks of these two mills with calipers so I am not making this up.

Memnoch

03-12-2007, 08:48 AM

Supertib, I have a question about the STS 30. How easy (or hard for that matter) are they to tune compared to other motors? I was talking to a guy who is sponsored by STS at our local track and he said they were rather difficult to keep tuned up correctly. Of course he also said that once you do get them tuned correctly they were absolute screamers. Considering the performance of his Losi 8ight buggy and 8ight Truggy I would say he wasn't kidding. However what I want to know is if it worth it to go with the STS 30 for the Average basher. I have no problem running 10 -15 tanks through for break-in, I just wanted to know if you think it would be possible for someone without as much experience to keep one of those motors running at optimal performance or at least close to it.

I'm not talking about a novice, just a average Nitro Junkie! Thanks.

Jeremy

03-12-2007, 09:09 AM

I have found that the mill is a little on the touchy side (at first ) its a must that u seal these engines airleakes will screw w/ them badly .. also the sts pipe is really what u need for these to run at there best !! as far as tunning, I might be getting used to it or real close to the sweet spot but on my last runs I never had to touch the needles (about 7 tanks) I let the sts do her thing... Its not that hard to turn just NO AIRLEAKS, and seal the lsn w/ teflon tape u will be just fine !!!

Supertib

03-12-2007, 09:25 AM

i find these motors easy to tune... But alot of people seem to have problems... the key is to be patient and take your time tuning it... the tune wont settle down till it reaches full break in, at about 1.5 gallons... I find that once you do get them dialed they almost never have to be touched or altered, we raced a whole weekend without even having to touch the needles...

But as I say dont expect miracles for about 1.5 gallons, till that point the tune may be unstable and erratic, and as Jester says STS pipe is a must, removing shims is needed( can burn down piston if you dont) and truthfully the older looser STS 30's dont like 20% nitro. everyone who is having issues is trying to run 20%, 20% nitro with all the shims will cause major hot spots on the piston and eventualy cause damage.

Jester is your 30 the new one with ultra tight pinch ?

SSSavage25

03-12-2007, 11:14 AM

what % nitro do u suggest using?

Supertib

03-12-2007, 11:20 AM

what % nitro do u suggest using?

30% nitro.. the engine will run cooler , tune easier and last longer.

head shims are something that cannot be ignored, people not doing this are asking for problems.

Xjeepguy

03-12-2007, 02:57 PM

I have both mills apart on the bench a 4.6 and a Axial 28..sleeve is 100% identical, same timing, same porting... the cranks are slightly different, but identical timing, the Axial has a crude turbo crank, the 4.6 doesn't... The difference in the dyno is from using different glow plugs more then anything...I am sorry to say but a Axial 28 is truly just a slightly touched (and I mean slightly) K4.6....I have modded quite a few Axials, and have several hours of video of them running as well....Not knocking it, but it is what it is..An Axial 28 would be a waste of money to upgrade to from a 4.6 IMHO, give each motor equal squish clearance, equal fuel, and equal plugs, and the dyno results would be identical...... I have measure the sleeves and cranks of these two mills with calipers so I am not making this up.

I dont know what sleeves you have, but ours are different. Our K-4.6 is out of an original 4.6SS kit bought almost 2 years ago, and our axial sleeve was only 4 months old and was the original one that came in the motor when the guy bought it. He ran it very lean and burnt it up. The axial has larger ports of the same shape, and the edges are smoothed, versus the HPI's rough cut ports. Theres no comparison between the workmanship on the 2 sleeves.

I will try to locate the dyno charts I was looking at. They are not from any engine manufacturer, and both engines were run on the same plug, with the same fuel with no bias whatsoever toward either engine. The axial made ALOT more power than the HPI. I am not going to argue this any further. They are simply not the same motor, period.

There is going to be some changes on this site very very soon. I have received quite a few complaints of people not feeling welcome, and getting tired of hearing about all of this, and quite frankly so am I. Hop has put this in my hands, and I will handle it anyway I see necessary.

Supertib

03-12-2007, 03:43 PM

here is the site you were refering too

http://www.nitrodynesystems.com/HPI%2028%20Axial%2028%20compare.htm

and they used different plugs, and each motor had different squish tolerance during testing.

No need to argue, I will post pics of an Axial 28 beside a HPI 4.6.. I own both motors so its not a big deal..... workmanship is identical, if your 4.6 was rough maybe it was a bad one from facotry, or possibly the 4.6 has been updated since the original... As a matter of fact there is a post on SC somewhere with 2 different 4.6 sleeves, one was different with slightly smaller ports.... So maybe its possible the 4,6 has been changed at some point in the game..

As my own Axial 28 and K4.6 are nearly twins, i would not lie about this, as I work on alot of Axial mills.

also to add, the owner of that site and dyno was employed on a consultant basis by Axial engines... The Axial tuned pipes they used are designed by him..

either way the Axial 28 is a 6 port motor and with mods can be made quite potent....

Xjeepguy

03-12-2007, 04:16 PM

All I am saying is I know what we compared here, and they were definatly not the same. We have run one of our ax's right along side our K-4.6's and there is a notable difference between the two. No need to post pics, If you have the same sleeves, you have the same sleeves.

[hs] darkshine

03-12-2007, 04:41 PM

each to their own and different strokes for different folks. one engine may feel faster to someone, another to someone else....

SAVAGESMASH

03-12-2007, 10:05 PM

Ok so I whould go to 30% nitro with my sts 30 rev2 and what should I run for shims in this motor?????? I am ordering the sts pipe as we speak!!!

DOOBEEWHA

04-22-2007, 07:18 PM

Whats wrong with Blue Thunder?

oregonmud

04-22-2007, 08:01 PM

The sport formuls has too much cheap oil in it. It will gum up the inside of your tank and dye the inside of your engine blue. I hear the Platinum formula is OK but after my bad experiances with it I wont try it again. I also went through glow plugs like crazy with the BT.

DOOBEEWHA

04-23-2007, 04:38 AM

Hey, thanks for the opinion, OregonMud. I'm running a 4.6 ss going into my 3rd gal. and was using Eliminator 30% When my bud gave me the the last of his unused gal. I asked him what the blend and age it was and he said it was the same percentage and has only been around for a "little while", which was my first mistake. Like a fool, I accepted the extra supply and mixed it with my on supply and had a heck of a time fine tuning my previously "running fine" engine for the next ten tanks. Into my second tank, I asked him again what the hell he gave me and he insisted that it was what he said it was, so I continued to try to troubleshoot my,what I thought was a tuning issue due to the trust factor. Well, after the last tank of the blend in question was spent, I was sure that the fuel I accepted was %$#! and went through my trash to find the bottle I recieved to see if I could makeout the info in print.......20%....%&#$. With more questioning, I found that the fuel was actually over a year old. What a dweeb I was. I know my bud would'nt pull this kind of thing for fun or something. At least, this is what I choose to believe anyway. SO..... After a few apologies later, I dumped some of my friends fresh supply of Blue Thunder 30% Sport in and WOW..., my motor was back in the game and with some fine tuning, it is now running like normal. MORAL OF THE STORY.....Beware of friends barering liquid gifts! Needless to say, I was so happy to see my motor come alive again, I felt a thankful liking towards BT because it was there for me, so to speak. I understand that HPI recommends a 25% blend max for the 4.6. Does anyone have a recommendation on what is the best fuel for the HPI 4.6 in regards to a bashing and racing combo application?.. Thanks to all who reply. -DOOBEEWHA

DOOBEEWHA

04-24-2007, 03:01 AM

CLEARLY... WE HAD A GENTLEMAN HERE that has a tried and true reason to express his experience and knowledge in a calm, defendable manner. SOMEONE WITH THIS LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING IN THIS SUBJECT, may justfully experience some impatients with those who find the bigger picture of high proformance nitro abit beyond them. HOWEVER, allowing this NOW FORMER formum member to stretch his wings in this light, SHOULD HAVE BEEN WELCOMED. The fact of the matter is that a good percentage of our forum members are in it, say "for the fun of it all", (and thats OK) yet, they may not have the capacity to accept the raw knowledge that could verywell be thier ultimate goal to begin with. Thus, interferring with a much more rewarding nitro experience for all of us. OPENMINDED INDIVIDUALS ON THE OTHER HAND, HAVE THE ABBILLITY TO PUT THIER SELF-PRECIEVED RE****TIONS AND OVERBEARING PRIDE TO THE WAYSIDE. AND FURTHERMORE, ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS GENTLEMEN has nothing better to do than to share his accurate accounting of nitro engine atributes and break-in procedures to the stuborn, MUST BE SWIMMING IN A POOL OF IGNORANCE. SUPERTIB can advise me about nitro anytime. -DOOBEEWHA

Lunar Wolf

04-24-2007, 05:54 PM

...removing shims is needed( can burn down piston if you dont) and truthfully the older looser STS 30's dont like 20% nitro.

Hey Max,

i got a v2 STS30, just started breaking it in today, did 10 heatcycles and got through 3-4 tanks.

I'm running 25%, and i gather .4mm is the shimming for that. My question is when do i start removing shims?

Jeremy

04-24-2007, 06:48 PM

Hey Max,

i got a v2 STS30, just started breaking it in today, did 10 heatcycles and got through 3-4 tanks.

I'm running 25%, and i gather .4mm is the shimming for that. My question is when do i start removing shims?

Hey bud he is no loger a member here anymore.....

What I did w/ mine was ran a gallon or more out then started removing the shimms

DOOBEEWHA

05-01-2007, 05:53 AM

What kind of fuel? With temps of 200 I was pretty sure it wasnt lean anyway. Lets cut to the chase, if your using Blue Thunder, dump it out dude.
Just wanted to ask you about this Issue with Dynamite Blue Thunder. I know there's higher end fuels out there on the market but it would be cool to get a good opinion on what is a good choice for Bash/Race level fuel. I've wittnessed for myself that my buds going through plugs too quickly with his Dynamite mach 26 installed in his Savage 25 Limited w/ stock pipe RTR using Dyna's sport blend 30%. At the same time, I'm using the exact same fuel in my HPI k4.6 with no problems at all. In fact, I think my plug that's currently in the engine now hasn't been changed for along time. By long time, I mean like 12 to 14 tanks and it's still going strong compared to my buds rig that's going through them like every 3 tanks or so. He's not an Idiot or something and is obviously uptight about this consern. After giving it some thought, the noticable comparatives are as follows: His engine was broke in on blue thunder and seems to wind up quicker, It seems to have a good pinch. I'm not sure but, I think it's max rpm is rated at 38,000. It's hard starting after it's warmed up. I believe he's just about to complete the two gal. mark and I feel the motor has a good touch on the sleeve seeing that it came from an RTR. I'm running the 4.6 into my 3 1/2 gal. mark and feel my mill is as standard as they come. Max revs. at 34,000 rpm's, with no frills to speak of other than the fact that it's pipe is matched for HPI's 4.6 ss kit ver. I have no starting issues and my engine is running at what appears to be peak proformance. We are both using McCoy no.8 plugs I guess what I'm asking is why is my engine able to not be effected by this glo-plug problem, while my friend who has a Dynamite engine, has trouble with Dynamite fuel? I know there's alot of variables here but, if you can shed any insight on this subject, it could be a great help. Thanks for time and any reply, OregonMud. -DOOBEEWHA